Accelerating Business Relationships through Storytelling - with Kap Chatfield

Take the relationships with your audience to a higher level with storytelling. collision 
Nothing builds your brand or long-term business success more than a strong relationship with your audience—and the key to that strength is the content you produce. 
What message are you conveying? Is your audience interested, or do they even care? eyes 
studio microphone B2B Podcasting brings you an incredible episode with our CEO Kap Chatfield who shares how businesses can harness the power of storytelling to strengthen business relationships. 
The content you create has the power to either strengthen or destroy your connection with potential clients, so make sure you’re creating the RIGHT way. 
Main Takeaways:
gem stone Show marketing is the future of your brand development
gem stone Business relationships can be long lasting with the right content pillars
gem stone Perfect the art of storytelling for your brand strength
gem stone Discover how your business can master storytelling to build a strong audience
alarm clock 00:00 - 11:33 | Storytelling is the basis for any good B2B marketing strategy
alarm clock 11:33 - 18:00 | B2B relationships can be strengthened through the content you create
alarm clock 18:00 - 24:55 | Learn how to create content for the five different personas of your business
alarm clock 24:55 - 1:02:25 | Residual relationship with your audience can be built through show marketing
speech balloon “Show marketing is about business development and building relationships with your audience through episodic content over time.” - Kap Chatfield, CEO of Rveal Media
speech balloon “People want to do business with organizations whose narrative they can be a part of.” - Kap Chatfield, CEO of Rveal Media
speech balloon “Content is a consumable, it’s just a digital consumable.” - Kap Chatfield, CEO of Rveal Media
speech balloon“People want to do business with people that they like and trust—it all comes down to relationship.” - Kap Chatfield, CEO of Rveal Media
Reach out to Rveal & Kap Chatfield:
Kap’s LinkedIn:
Rveal’s website:
Rveal’s LinkedIn:
Rveal’s YouTube channel:
Reach out to Pablo Gomez:
Pablo’s LinkedIn:
Pablo’s Podcast, Be the Stage:
210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_ Bonus Episode_ Accelerating Business Relationships through Storytelling - with Kap Chatfield_QG1

Full Transcription: 

Pablo Gonzalez  00:20

Welcome to the B2B Community Builders Show! I am your host, the Chief Executive Connector, Pablo Gonzalez. Today we got a guy that I connected with recently on LinkedIn because everything he's talking about is the things that I most believe in. His name is Kap Chatfield. He's the CEO and founder of Rveal Media, best looking podcaster I've seen on LinkedIn personally, and a pretty smart guy, man. Welcome to the show bro.


Kap Chatfield  00:46

I appreciate it, man. I'm gonna tell my wife you said that, make sure she intros me when I walk into the room with that same line.


Pablo Gonzalez  00:51

Don't tell my wife because she knows I say that to way too many dudes. There's nothing wrong with that. Kap, man tell me I I am when I see you evangelizing this thing, right like I there's a lot of podcasting agencies, I know a lot of podcasters. I instantly recognize when someone is strike striking me as different, right? Like you're you're talking about a different leader, a heavy duty. You talk about it as show marketing, you're not you see beyond this idea of just having a podcast. Tell me, tell me what you mean by show marketing.


Kap Chatfield  01:24

To be honest, show marketing, to me is like the future of everything that I see us doing for other businesses. It's the closest thing I think we can do to like, bridging the gap between what, what language does the market have right now for what they think they need, and where we want to see businesses go. And I'll kind of break that down. Because right now, like our services, when we talk about show marketing, we're talking about helping B2B brands, typically in the SAS tech space, but also in kind of like thought leadership, professional services, consultancies, that sort of that sort of realm, helping them produce content at scale, and build strategic relationships at scale through a B2B podcast, or typically a video podcast. But what we, the reason why we are we're trying to use the phrase show marketing is because we want to kind of groom our market to start thinking beyond the podcast world. Because even podcasting, we're seeing, it's becoming a lot more saturated with the B2B world, but it's still in its infancy phase. And there's still businesses who are asking, and, you know, I understand why they're asking these questions. But I think there's just the wrong question to ask. They're asking questions like, well, how many subscribers will I get? How many viewers will I get? Or how many listen will I get? And it's like, it's not even really about that. It's about business development. It's about building relationship with an audience. And you do that by creating episodic content over the long run, and shows are what do that. I mean, I guess here's, here's where it really kind of stuck out to me, I was thinking, I've never been a Game of Thrones guy. I'm not really into that sort of stuff. But what I noticed was, if I logged on to like Twitter, or Facebook, or Instagram, I knew what day Game of Thrones came on TV, because of people's posts on Twitter, or Facebook, or whatever. And they'd say things like, "Oh, my goodness, I can't believe they just died, or I can't believe that just happened, or that was the best episode ever". And then everyone's commenting, like, "I know, it was amazing, or I know that was terrible". And what you're seeing is like, you're seeing this devout loyalty to characters that they have never even met. And that's what I think is the difference between shows and ads. An our phrase, you know, and this is kind of similar, we talked about this pre show call about like your company's called Be The Stage, one of our tagline is Skip Ads, Be the Show, it's kind of the same mindset of, you know, ads, they they skip, they are they get skipped, they get muted, they get bypassed altogether, they repel audiences, but shows build audiences. And in order for businesses, to not just become content that interrupts the content that their audience truly wants to consume, but to be the content that their audience is actually pursuing. It's going to take them to stop thinking like marketing like an ad, and start creating shows, literally creating shows. Maybe right now it's a podcast, it could be a YouTube series down the road, it could be original content, like Apple TV's doing. And I really think that that's the future of businesses, especially enterprise level businesses, if they want to win and captivate an audience and educate that audience over time, get that loyalty, they need to start thinking more like a show.


Pablo Gonzalez  04:34

I love how you think beyond it and you're thinking big, right? Like I there's there's very few people that to me, I've I've spoken to in this realm that understand the value of the what was it the Queen's Gambit, right? Like, like what like when I think of when I think of the ultimate content marketing, I think of a feature length film or a series that ends up getting millions of people into a hobby, right? So like this this podcasting piece to me is it's like cracking it open. And really it is even, you know, podcasting is one thing, I think what really changed it is the, the distribution has become free, right? Like the the thing that I evangelize is the internet talk show, right? So like to me, to me, it's like that same, that same reason that Oprah became Oprah and Joe Rogan has become Joe Rogan isn't because they are the ones thinking of what's interesting, it's because they've gotten free distribution, they figured out how to distribute their, how you said it, right, like their relationships, they've been able to scale relationships via showing off in front of, not showing off, but like showing people's talent, being next to it, and being guilty by association with really, really smart people over and over again.


Kap Chatfield  05:51

And they're doing that in a genuine way, which I think is really cool. Because sometimes I think, you know, our best intentions can get away get in the way of doing stuff that's that it hits two birds with one stone. Like you can build strategic relationships with featured guests on your show, and perhaps even nurture some of those relationships to begin business partnerships, or you're just leveraging their influence. And the tension is like, well, I don't want to come off disingenuous in how I pursue that. Well, make it a genuine interaction. Tell them "hey, I want to have you on the show because you are a high profile person, you're going to bring value to our audience. And selfishly, I want to just get to know you and I want to spend some time with you". And you're gonna get this, this and this out of this experience. You manage expectations, and it's a win win for everybody. So I think it's it to me, it's a no brainer.


Pablo Gonzalez  05:51

Yeah, totally man. How did you? How'd you figure this out? Right? Like I got my own origin story of like, how I figured out the power of this stuff. How'd you come across?


Kap Chatfield  06:52

Well, for me, it kind of started when I went to film school. So you we just talked actually pre-show too. You're in the Coral Gables area that's where you grew up. I went to the University of Miami. We had just we just lost to Florida State this weekend, which is extremely disappointing. I know.

210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_ Bonus Episode_ Accelerating Business Relationships through Storytelling - with Kap Chatfield_QG3

Pablo Gonzalez  07:07

I went to UF so at least we can we both hate Florida State. 


Kap Chatfield  07:10

Okay, yeah. There you go. Yup. The enemy of your enemy is your friend, right? So yeah. So I went to film school. And I'm a filmmaker by trade, like, that's really kind of where I cut my teeth in the world of storytelling. And one of the biggest things that I learned in film school was the power of narrative structure. And learning how every every movie, every story, is, it's got the same sort of formula to how it functions. And so, you know, that was probably my biggest takeaway of like, Hey, you got, you know, part one, part two, part three of the movie, the beginning is where you set up the problem, the context. Part two is where you really kind of go on the journey. And there's the climax, where Luke Skywalker destroys the Death Star, Frodo throws the ring into the to the fiery pit of Mordor, those sorts of things, or the guy gets the girl of his dreams sort of scenarios. And then the third part is the resolution. Like, what happens after that? What's the happily ever after? How do all the problems kind of get resolved? And so I started to see that that form of communication, it's not a fad, which was really helpful for me, because sometimes we can get so caught up in tactics like this email marketing strategy or tactic or this social media strategy. And storytelling, if you understand storytelling, it's eternal. We are storytelling beings. We've been storytelling as a species since the beginning of time. And that's how we advance as a as a species. That's how we advance as communities as people and grow as individuals. And so what I discovered was storytelling, that that narrative structure, it can find itself not just in movies, but in TV shows, in emails, in tweets, in jokes in day to day conversation. And so what I tried to figure out after film school was okay, how do I take this skill set that I learned and monetize it? So because I'm Hollywood's not calling me asking me to direct any movies yet. So how do I take this skill and monetize it for the market? How do I how do I make it something that's valuable to the marketplace? And so, you know, started off with me just doing like, freelance video work for customers. And that was pretty cool. But there came this time when I realized like, hey, I need some consistent income. And that consistency is not going to come from like looking for project by project, but creating some sort of recurring revenue model. And what I discovered is like, you know, anybody that's in the, in the space where they're creating like recurring revenue from a SaaS product, or even just a consumable like makeup, or, you know, shampoo or, or food is like you always got to eat, you always got to replace these things. Contents the same way. Content is a consumable, it's just a digital consumable. So what I was thinking was, how do I create a structure that is best for my business, and also best for their business? Because that's a recurring revenue model, they have a line item budget, in the budget, where they know they're paying this much for X amount of content. And how do we scale that content and really get the most use out of it? And that's kind of what I see you doing with your show. And this is what we tell all our customers is like, Hey, you do one show, you focus on creating really excellent pillar content, that pillar content becomes fuel for all of your digital marketing channels. It becomes all of your micro videos for LinkedIn, it becomes all of your quotes for Twitter, it becomes all of your email newsletters for week to week per episode. And it's like it's content at scale. And it's storytelling at scale. And the other thing that I'd say that's really interesting, and I appreciate you letting me go on about this, because you can tell that I'm passionate, I think about this a lot. But I see business as one of the things that they really struggle with, in a very ethereal, complex, nebulous, digital marketing world, a universe where it's like, how do all these things connect? How do I, how do I create a social media strategy and an email strategy and a blog strategy, and a website strategy, and not feel like I'm managing 10 different things, I don't even really know how all of them performing, or how all of them work together to move my business forward. You can unify all of your marketing efforts by starting with a show. The Show becomes your unified narrative and it becomes the source, the nucleus for the content on all these different platforms. So for me, it just felt like this is the simplest way to go to market with whatever you're selling.


Pablo Gonzalez  11:26

Content is a consumable, it's just a digital consumable. You got that QUOTE CARD done, man? We're gonna make that happen for you. 


Kap Chatfield  11:31

I'm gonna write it down too that was good. 


Kap Chatfield  11:33

Nailed it. 


Pablo Gonzalez  11:33

Yeah, that's, that's gonna happen for you anyways, you don't even have to do it. Right? JP's got it for you. Cool, man. You said a couple of things in there that I want to touch back upon right? Number one is, I really want to touch into storytelling, right? I was in like a storytelling rabbit hole for for like six months of this year, I read like four storytelling books. I never studied movies or anything like that. But what I want to go back to something else you said prior. And it's the idea that you didn't you didn't just mention this, but to me, I arrived to this, because of the power of relationships, right? Like I very firmly believe that, you know, you talked about it before, there's tactics, and then there's fundamental truths, right? Storytelling will always work. Facebook ads worked great for a while, now they're more expensive. Relationship building is the one thing that no matter how how much you do it, it will always lower cost of buying acquisition and increase lifetime value of clients. 


Pablo Gonzalez  11:36

Right? So we think about what is the and you only have so much time to devote to relationship building. So how can you create the most relationships possible with the same amount of time you're gonna spend? How did you stumble onto the value of this as a relationship tool?


Kap Chatfield  12:49

Dude, I love that you said that, because that's been like a value prop that I've been thinking about for the businesses that we sell to a lot. Because, you know, very few people wake up saying, How do I solve my B2B podcasting problem today? Right? Or how do I? And then there's still maybe more people, but there's still few business owners that are thinking, How do I solve my content problem today? But questions are probably asking more. And this is I'll go into like the five personas of that we're really trying to sell to whether it's sales, marketing, recruiting, training, or customer service. And, and what I'm, what I'm discovering is like, the problem that people have today is everyone's skeptical. Everyone's bombarded with information. People want to do business with people that they like, and people that they trust. And it comes down to relationship. Like who do you like? Who's a personality you want to do business with over time? And who's somebody that you know, is going to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish? And so to me, the content element is relationship at scale. And it's residual relationship. 

210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_ Bonus Episode_ Accelerating Business Relationships through Storytelling - with Kap Chatfield_QG2

Kap Chatfield  13:54

And I really kind of came across this kind of just building my own personal brand and creating content on Instagram, Facebook, some YouTube stuff, kind of just like, just because I just sharing what I want to share. It wasn't even like a major business strategy. And then even like our production company, we have a another company called Rveal Films and we'd put out a documentary that's on Amazon. And, you know, we put it out once you put out this content once, and people would just hit me up like a year later, "Hey, I saw this. And it really impacted me or somebody shared this with me, and I want to tell you, like I saw, I watched all your videos since then". And so what's interesting, we had a guest on our show recently. His name's Jonathan Stark, and he he was talking about the power of his own show. And he's got he gets people that come up to him all the time that are like man, you know, that episode, like it really impacted me and he's like, who are you? You know, just like, there's this, he calls this this this type of relationship, asymmetric intimacy, which I thought such a really cool term for it but people feel like they get to know you on their terms, really while you sleep. So you put it together, you show the world who you are and what you know. And you allow them to build that relationship with you when it's convenient for them. And you're not spending all this time doing it yourself. And so I think that's a but I also want to share this too, if I can, Pedro, because I think this is this is so important for people to realize when when they are creating this content is that you got to you got to work it as well, you can't just let it work for you. In regards to like, put out the content, set it and forget it, you got to be willing to also build digital relationships with people, because here you are, you and I got connected off of seeing some micro content from each other. We connected in a LinkedIn DMS, you didn't automate that process. You didn't set a robot to come and reach out to me and build this relationship without you knowing about it. You had some pieces in place that allows you to scale, to cut down the time it would take to build that relationship. You saw what I'm about, I saw what you're about. And boom, we said, hey, let's connect. And so it's it's not a replacement to do the thing that only humans can do. But it should set you up for success to do it with the right people a lot faster. That's the goal. That's the goal there.


Pablo Gonzalez  13:54



Pablo Gonzalez  16:15

Yeah, yeah, totally. Man. You know, you said that, 


Kap Chatfield  16:18

And sorry for calling you Pedro. I know your name is Pablo.


Pablo Gonzalez  16:21

Buddy, if I had a, if I had a quarter for every time I got called Pedro. 


Kap Chatfield  16:24

Sorry about that. 


Pablo Gonzalez  16:25

It's good. It's good. We're good. JP cut that out. So no, man, what so what you're saying what you're saying is real, right? So I think of it as I think that the asymmetric relationship building is a piece of it. I think of it as frictionless nurture, right? Like, how can you reduce friction from creating relationships? So some of the stuff that you're talking about, right? Like building an infrastructure that reduces friction, a calendar automation tool is a friction reducer. The ability for you to be like, is this guy cool? Let me go check out five of his videos real quick in 15 minutes and, you know, make a little bit of a better opinion than just like, whatever DM came through, right? Like, I think video is something that reduces friction, because you can see facial expressions, you can see kind of like the intent and inflection, right? Same thing with voice notes, right? Like, I, it's so much, it's so much better to send somebody a voice note, saying something that may be perceived wrong, right? Like, if you're giving somebody some feedback, that they might be able to, like, take the wrong way instead of a text, shooting a voice, and it just comes across a lot better, man. So I totally, totally totally echo with all that stuff. I love it, man. Um, let's go to let's go to storytelling, right? Like you, you talked about episodic content. You talked about storytelling. Are you building storytelling narrative into? Like, are you building setup, conflict, resolution into interviews? Are you building it out as like, do you see your podcasts and the podcasts that you produce as like, one season so you're trying to build a macro flow of of setup resolution conflict? Tell me about that. 


Kap Chatfield  18:00

I, we incorporate story, at every level, in our entire marketing strategy. At the macro level, the entire the business, the show, the season, down to the episode, down to the micro video, down to the micro to the quote graphic, because all of those things, it's like, I'll even start with the micro video, the micro video in and of itself, is the show. And because what you're doing is you're put that on LinkedIn, you know, hey, I got 30 seconds, maybe, to hold this person's attention. And I want them to get that show sort of experience where there's a problem, there's a there's a solution, and there's a resolution, right? So that's, that's kind of the goal. So I'll kind of break down tactically, like how we how we, you know, begin that journey from the top down. So when we work with the customer, we typically start with that business objective that we just talked about, those five different personas, whether you're in sales, and you're like, Man, I want to, I want to begin some very strategic relationships with some target accounts. And I know that I could do that by creating a show that represents their expertise, that speaks to an audience that they want to be well known in front of, and inviting them on the show as a featured guest. Again, making it a really legit experience that brings value to that audience and brings value to their, to their own personal brand, right? That's gonna help you begin relationships that could end up in some seriously amazing sales situations, right? So sales objective. Marketing objective, I don't think we need to go too deep into that. Obviously, tons of content consistently helps you build brand at scale. The third option would be, let's say recruiting, so recruiting, that would be in the scenario where hey, you know, we're in the middle of the great resignation right now. Everybody's hiring everybody. You know, the value of a typical employee has gone up, maybe for some people is doubled in the amount that they're trying to pay these people. And so, now they're fighting to recruit these free agents across and they can do it across the world, really? I mean, because you can work remotely. So how do you how are we going to recruit the right talent, groom them to our company culture, and reduce the onboarding time and the training time, right? That goes into the fourth objective, which may be, hey, we got all these employees, now we got to train them, we got to train them in how we think, we've got to train them on company culture. So decreasing the time to train and better equip those those employees so that they can do their job more effectively. And also, so we can retain them, so we can continue to give them culture and make them excited about the vision of this company. And then finally, number five is customer service. How can we create some sort of content that's behind the paywall, so only our current customers or paying customers or paying clients get access to this stuff. So they feel like man, that's like a value add, this is going to keep me more engaged with this vendor, because they're giving me value beyond some of the services that they're providing. So we help them identify which of those five objectives is the most important thing for them. And there could be a blend, maybe there's a primary, a secondary, or tertiary goal. But what we do is we got to make that the Northstar. Because if your story, if your show isn't moving the needle forward on that thing, you're not going to think that there's an ROI on this project, and you're going to quit. And we want you to see, hey, this is based off of this objective that you and us agreed upon, that was the best for your business. This is why we're doing the show. Okay? So I laid out because that's, that's the most important part. That's the foundation of everything that we do, what's the objective? Number two, who's your audience based off of what that objective is? In the sales world, It'd be your target accounts. In the marketing world, it's going to be people that represent the buyer persona for your product. In the recruiting world, it's going to be who you want to recruit to your business. Training, who's your employee? What do they care about? And then finally, the customer service? Who's your current customers and clients? So at that level of who's your audience understanding who they are? What do they care about? And what stands in their way? What problem are they facing, that's keeping them from getting where they want to go? And you also want to kind of massage that so that your product or your solution that you're selling, or that the the desired outcome that you want to take them in, that is represented as the solution to that problem. And then finally, number three, developing the narrative kind of weaving it all together to create that, that that's a story that's going to be what draws them in, keeps them engaged, and ultimately makes them take that action, which leads to that number one objective. So creating that strategy at a macro level, obviously, that's going to help you figure out hey, what's the story of our show? Who is the show for? Who are we going to invite on the show? But it dictates how you approach everything down to the micro content captions for social media. Starting with a hook, addressing that audience buying name. Hey, sales leaders in this industry. Hey, you know, employees of our company in this division, that's your changes the way you think about addressing creating that content, beginning with a problem, agitating the pain points so that they're interested and they're like, man, okay, I got to stick around to hear the solution to this problem, because this problem hit me personally. And then giving them the solution and painting the picture for what their future could look like. So I know that was kind of an elongated answer, but that it truly at the macro level, all the way down to the micro level. That's that's how we think about storytelling.


Pablo Gonzalez  23:29

That's that's beautiful man. Like, I'm gonna JP cut this out, right like that, is that by itself is a micro piece of content of just like a perfect podcast launch strategy, right? Like, here you go Kap knows what he's talking about, right? And, and, and you you alluded tool to another thing in there. That is, you actually alluded to this earlier, which I wanted to get back to residual income, right? Residual income from from from content, right? Like I call it 


Kap Chatfield  23:57

Resdual relationship.


Pablo Gonzalez  23:58

Residual relationship, right? Like I, I call I call content, the passive investment of passive income investing of marketing, right? Like, this idea that you just went through these five different personas, you just went through this idea that on the front end, you can create a relationship on the next step is you're creating marketing content. The next step is you're creating customer success enablement and and, and pipeline enablement and stuff like that. Beyond that, a year into a podcast, that is the structure of your book, right? Like the bomb bomb guys just put out Human Centered Communication. And it's really just a bunch of interviews with people and their tactics and whatever and it's turned into a Wall Street Journal bestseller. The back end of that is like a course that you can sell for 100 bucks and help a bunch of people and provide a little bit of cash flow plus a free client acquisition kind of stuff, man like 


Kap Chatfield  24:54

100% Yeah. 


Pablo Gonzalez  24:55

What do you see, what do you see as the the next steps of where can, what are people sleeping on when it comes to the future of the content library that it might be zero right now, but when you're building this up in five years, you know, what do you think people are sleeping on?

210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_ Bonus Episode_ Accelerating Business Relationships through Storytelling - with Kap Chatfield_QG4

Kap Chatfield  25:12

I think they're sleeping on getting started. First of all, I think so many businesses are like, everything is, you know, just gets killed in the committee, right? Like, how do we do this content so that it really represents the organization? It's all this red tape. And I think, you know, businesses need to empower a culture of personal brand building. Because, because when when employees feel like man, like, I want to share what I'm learning, but I don't know what my boss is gonna think about it. Dude, it's I mean, I, I've had a handful of people on our show, who are, they're not even the CEO, or the founder of the organization, they're like an intrapreneur, inside of another organization. But they got hired because of their personal brand. And they are elevating the corporate brand, because they are creating content personally, personally. And so like, I you know, one thing that I'm just, I want to see more CEOs and founders embrace content creation, because I think it takes the whole organization goes to a just another level. And it's not about having the greatest camera, it's not about having the the best tactics. When you're the CEO, or the founder of the organization, you are the chief vision officer of the organization. Your vision drives the company, your vision drives the culture. And if your team doesn't know what you're thinking on a day to day basis, much more in a hybrid slash fully remote environment where that might be the only touch point that you have for them is through a screen where you either write something or record something audibly, or shoot a little video of yourself. I mean, shoot like, it's, there's, it's, there's no wonder why people are jumping from company to company. People want to be a part, whether it's a customer or an employee, they want to do business with organizations that they can buy into the narrative of, and if you're not telling the story, personally, they're following you. They're not following the company, they're not following a logo, they're following you. I know now, I'm preaching, now I'm getting hot about it. Because I just think like, man, it's, we could get stopped being being so cute about it, and making sure that everything is, you know, type-o free and all of that, people want to know what you think they want to know what you see. And that's what makes them want to follow you.


Pablo Gonzalez  27:25

I totally agree, man. And now we're getting now we're getting into this, like, next level of like, you can build culture with this stuff, right? You can, and you can enable communication at scale with this stuff. And, and at the at the base of it all is relationship building at scale, right? Like there is, if you there's a great quote that I heard Dean Graziosi, say, which is that people don't just do business with people that they like, they do business with people that feel the understand them. Right? So going back to this whole like evangelizing a problem, right? Like, if you can be very clear about the thing that you care about, and the problem that you see in the world and what you stand for, and people have that problem, they're going to enroll with you. And and to your, to your point of I love this business community, businesses need to empower a culture of personal brand building, I couldn't agree more, I think that goes to your tagline, it goes to my, to the name of my company, right? It's not just it, this is not just client acquisition, the idea that instead of being the interruption, and being the show, instead of being the star on the stage, being the stage itself, goes to company building, right? Like I had a friend of mine, who owns an insurance company at one point, which is like, I want to make content. I'm hiring this guy that makes content but I'm a little bit worried about this idea of letting them make content because maybe they're gonna go off and be their own insurance broker afterwards. I was like, Whitt, if somebody comes under you and becomes a star and you become a kingmaker? Let that person go, because every other person that wants to be a star is going to want to come work for you. Right? 


Kap Chatfield  28:55

Like 100%? Yes. 


Pablo Gonzalez  28:58

And that's what Gong and Dooley are doing right now, right? Like Gong and Dooley are out there just like hiring the best content creators on LinkedIn, bringing them on board, and their brand is going through the roof.


Kap Chatfield  29:07

It's so funny, you said that, because I didn't realize that that was their strategy. But that is exactly how I've even come to know about those two brands. Because they have personal brands underneath the corporate brand, that are that just have freedom, freedom to just sell what they sell. And, and there's not this weird sort of competition between the competition between the company and the and the personal brand ambassador.


Pablo Gonzalez  29:33

Totally, totally, man. How big is your team right now, man? How are you? Are you thinking about implementing that in house, right? Because you're you're very clearly out front, right? You're the CEO. You've got a partner that is also on your podcast as well. You guys are doing that. How are you? Because I'm doing the same thing. I'm growing a team. I'm like, my partner. I'm trying to get him to do more. I'm trying to get my COO to do more. How are you thinking about it as you start scaling this stuff?


Kap Chatfield  29:57

It's for me at the same you know, it's it's challenging because it's, it's not everybody's cup of tea to like, go out and be the front person. And I think that's fine. Because some people just it's not their deal. And they're more behind the scenes, people. And so I want, I also want to create a culture by the way, our team is like, about five full time people right now, we have some contractors we work with, and we have creative and add operation solutions that, that I won't get into too in depth. But yeah, that we have a pretty small, intimate team. But what I really believe is like, I want our team to feel the freedom to go and build personal brand, try new things, but at the same time, also play to their strengths and not feel like man, like I'm not this, you know, I'm not this marketing mastermind. I'm not this content creation, mastermind. It's like, hey, that's fine. Like, you know, we need people behind the scenes that just do that one thing. So I think I hope that answers your question is like, I want to create a culture where people are free to, but I also recognize like, hey, you know, if you really don't feel like this is your lane, don't force it. Because that could also do some damage if you're trying to force it. And that's not really how you're made.


Pablo Gonzalez  31:06

Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's, that's equally as important right, for somebody to feel like the seat on the bus was made for them, and not that you're forcing them on someone else's seat. Right? Right. Right. That makes a lot of sense, man. All right, dude. Let's solve for a problem via content. 


Kap Chatfield  31:21

Let's go. 


Pablo Gonzalez  31:22

Let's look. So great. I'm trying to I'm trying to come up with it, right because I like this. Can you come up with one that you've thought of recently? And then I'll end on I'll start with another one?


Kap Chatfield  31:36

Yeah, let's think of, let's say that we have a business that is a fortune 500 company, 1000s of employees all over the country. And they want to do an internal show of some sort, to unify all of their employees. And they go and they work from like, a lot of different regions. You got people in New York, you got people in Texas, you got people in Utah, you have people in California. And one of the challenges that they're thinking about is like, Okay, how do we keep all these people unified, we don't want to, like create content externally, necessarily. But we want it, we want to see these people. And this is like a real scenario that we were trying to close a deal with that their budget just kind of went through the, you know, went through the floor, and they lost the ability to do it. But so in this scenario, they're like, how do I keep all these people unified, and also keep them interested in the content, when you have so many different regions that are all dealing with different problems. So it's really hard to create, like a single narrative around all those different things. Here's the solution that we presented to them. What if you did a show that was creating this content to help unify the entire the entire organization, you're celebrating stories, success stories of employees that are just crushing it, they're coming up with unique solutions, you're sharing success stories with customers, you're giving practical advice about, hey, this is how we can solve these sorts of problems. Here's what's happening at a, you know, even at a cultural and political level, and how it can affect our company. And this is how we can navigate that. And the way to make sure that everybody feels like they're engaged from these different regions, invite leaders, regional leaders from each region as the featured guests on the show, and allow them to share, hey, here's what we're dealing with in the New York Region. Here's a major problem that we just ran into. And I want to brag about, or I want to brag about this one employee that we have in this region, who absolutely crushed it this quarter, because they did X, Y, and Z to solve this problem. Let's like let's celebrate that person. And you're giving that person from that region basically a national stage within the company, to celebrate that, that problem or to celebrate the solution to that problem. Because what you're doing is you're giving I mean, it's like it's totally in alignment with the name of your company, Be The Stage. You're giving. You're giving these people a platform to share what's going on and that's what unifies, that's what you can unify your culture around.


Pablo Gonzalez  34:09

All right, now I got creative juices going dude. Yeah, totally right? So I had a friend of mine, she is in medical sales, and she is like the one Hispanic woman in the whole like nationwide team. And they're trying to celebrate diversity and inclusion. And they're like, how do we how do we do this? I was like, wow, Danielle to me, ut's about crew, same exact thing you just said. If you start a show, interviewing all the other sales reps, everybody up and down the chain that are minorities that you know that that that fit this like diversity and inclusion, and you don't make it about diversity inclusion. You're just throwing up a Pedro Jimenez over here and a Rajim Ashcar over there. And you know a bunch of different names that is just talking about, you know, when I giving advice on the stuff that works for them while Uh, on the back end, also saying, and you know, and I got here, you know, immigrant parents or whatever, and I came up with different way. And I got this opportunity because of XYZ and sharing that information, but making it super practical knowledge based, right, like learn from somebody else, then you kind of like inception, the story that it's also diversity, to me is kind of the future of dealing with diversity and inclusion in an organization like that.


Kap Chatfield  35:26

I like that approach a lot, because it becomes more about celebrating people rather than here's the problem we got to fix. And everyone's a problem. And then let's, you know, let's it to me, it's like, it feels more like when we would do I don't know if you guys did this when you're in school, but when I was in elementary school, we had international day, or whatever. And it was like a massive potluck. Everyone gets to bring a dish from their culture, and we get to learn about different cultures. And it was like, That was so cool. Like, who doesn't want to do that? And so and another thing that I think of when you share that is like, the Humans of New York stuff. Have you seen that? 


Pablo Gonzalez  36:03



Kap Chatfield  36:03

Yeah. So it's like, you have this guy who is a photographer, for anyone who's not familiar, he started this like, Instagram account called Humans of New York. And he would just take his camera and just go find random people, and take a photo of them and get like a quick sort of snapshot of their life in a couple sentences. And it was some of the most impactful content that I've ever seen of just all sorts of different people, they get to share a little bit about their story. And, and that's what it makes you appreciate just humanity in general, and the variety and the differences and so beautiful. And to see that within a company like the humans of. I mean, you're talking about Dooley and Gong, right? Humans of Dooley. Humans of Gong. Humans have whatever organization. I think, man, that's, it allows you to really know the individual rather than just here's the name in our Slack thread that I hand off tasks to and pester about deadlines and stuff. But really, it's getting to know personal stories and backgrounds. That's beautiful.


Pablo Gonzalez  37:01

Humans of New York did that really well. And that was like during like the Syrian crisis, right? So it was like it was really just incorporating this idea that a refugee on the street is more than you think man, which I think is really aweome.


Kap Chatfield  37:11

I didn't know that about the the inception or the conception of that idea that it was based off of that refugee situation. 


Pablo Gonzalez  37:18

I'm not sure of that, don't quote me on that, bro. I just remember, I just remember kind of seeing it at around that time. So I don't know if it was like what happened, but I thought it was a really effective way to humanize refugees, right? Like 


Kap Chatfield  37:28



Pablo Gonzalez  37:29

But by the way, I come from two diaspora populations, right? Like my dad was a refugee from Cuba in the 60s, and now Venezuelans are refugees all over the place, right? So I have like a unique kind of like, thinking of what a refugee is. But anyways, um, let's do another one, dude. 


Kap Chatfield  37:45

Let's do it.


Pablo Gonzalez  37:45

I got a company, I got a regional company, we're pulling off our first event in six months, how can a show help me pull off an event?


Kap Chatfield  37:55

What kind of company is it?


Pablo Gonzalez  37:58

I'm a, I'm a sales training company selling to higher ed, educational kind of like stuff providers.


Kap Chatfield  38:08

Okay, and you're trying to use the show to promote a trade show coming up, or an event or what?


Pablo Gonzalez  38:14

So in my head, I think that there's two things that you could do. You could be building up, you can be building an audience of pulling off a trade show. And you could also use it as an internal kind of like communication tool to logistically organize everybody of like, what we're doing to pull off this trade show that people can listen to on their way in to work, right? So anyways, I don't want to I'm kind of lobbing it over the lobbing it over the over the net to you, but to like, run with it.


Kap Chatfield  38:43

Personally. okay, this is kind of how I would approach it. First of all, I feel like, the challenge of the couple of things that you just said is that you're the more that you try to hit more than one objective, and that's why I talked about the five objectives. The more you dilute the audience, and you dilute the ability to attract the right audience. So it's like this fine balance of like going really, really niche. So you really speak to the people you want to speak to, but but understanding that you are going to possibly alienate some other people and that and being okay with that. And so what I would, the way that I would start off with is like, let's say that the goal was like, hey, we want to attract as many people to this trade show as possible. Like, that's the objective. And let's say you had six, six to 12 months to do that. The first thing that I would think through is what people do we need at that event? We need people from these, these education systems or companies or institutions, we need them at this event. And ideally, they're, you know, they're between this and this level of seniority in the organization, they're decision makers, stuff like that. And then, especially if you're, if your trade show is like, man, we're going to present specific products at the trade show that we really want to introduce to them. And they might not have the language for the problem that that thing solves. Because sometimes that's the problem with like, tech in general, right? It's like, if you're selling solutions in the tech world, you're, you're oftentimes creating solutions to problems that a lot of people don't know that they have. And so how do you how do you create? How do you market that solution in a way that's like appetizing to that audience? And so I would start with what problem does this person that we want to come to the trade show, what problem do they, are they really thinking about on a day to day basis? And Pablo, please answer that for me in regards to this scenario, as if you were the client.


Pablo Gonzalez  40:48

As if I'm the client. I'm trying to get better at, And again, I don't know much I just said the educational space just to say something random, well,


Kap Chatfield  40:56

 Just give me whatever. 


Pablo Gonzalez  40:57

No, no, I'm cool. No, I like to think through this, right? Like, let's be let's, let's try to have empathy, right? But like, if I'm, let's say, let's say I'm trying to sell edtech, into universities, I'm trying to figure out how do I talk to decision makers, and I'm trying to think, you know, what is their? You know, who How can I reach the decision makers inside that space? And what is the language that I need to do to get there? I'm trying to think, How can I get more sales? How can I get in?


Kap Chatfield  41:23

Got it. So you're really marketing to vendors of Ed Tech, not necessarily the purchasers of Ed Tech. That makes sense. So in that scenario, you're you're really marketing your tradeshow, and you're marketing your show around how to be a more effective edtech salesperson. And that's really kind of how you're going to brand the show, you're going to think about, hey, this, this type of person, they want to figure out how do I have a higher win rate? How do I close deals faster? How do I avoid getting unqualified leads into my pipeline? How do I keep them qualified? And then really creating a show where you're inviting featured guests on your show, maybe, who are absolutely crushing it in ed tech sales, and inviting them on saying, "hey, I want to pick your brain. How do you do this, this and this, and this, and this?" Because now what you're going to do is you're going to have the people that that that look up to that featured guest, they're going to come to the show, because they want to learn more from this individual. And then just keep on replicating that. And then now what you're doing is, you're you're not even selling your product, as you know, you're selling a solution to them through content of how do I become a more effective ed tech sales rep or sales manager, and then your product or your service or your trade show, particularly as the product at this point, hey, by the way, if you want to see if you want to connect with more people, like the person that you just saw on the show, or other people in our audience that represent you, you gotta come to this trade show, February 29. The big convention center off of Miami Boulevard or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, that's how you promote it. Yeah,


Pablo Gonzalez  43:02

I could see it going a step further, right? Like, I could see you using the podcast, to kind of test and see who you want as a keynote, right? Like that that's a good rep at like, Oh, this is gonna be a good keynote. This isn't. I could see using the podcast as if you're a vendor, right? Like, if you, let's say, this is a 12 month window, you use the first six months to build an audience and figure out who the best keynote is going to be, the next six months, you can say, hey, if you're a vendor for the show, I'm also going to release you as an episode of this podcast a month or two before the show, you start getting some you start getting some pub, right like, within the audience itself. And then without losing focus of the audience, you could use a piece of after the recording, to then record yourself giving an update of like, "Hey, by the way, the latest thing that's happening is XYZ, you know, we're talking to this person, because we're trying to close this deal", blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then distributing that internally for for everybody that's just out there trying to like plant seeds, right? Like if you know somebody else like this, they'll get somebody like this, right? Like,


Kap Chatfield  44:06

You get it, you get it. It's really figuring out how to leverage a piece of a content infrastructure that attracts the right people and say, Okay, we got this, how do we scale the right communication to achieve the set of outcomes? That's it.


Pablo Gonzalez  44:23

Yeah, yEah. And I, at the end of the day, dude, now that I'm getting, we just had our like, our strategic planning last week, and that's when I came up this as language of like time. At the end of the day, it's time man, right? Like, at the end of the day, it's it's leveraging the time that you're spending doing something to do more things with that amount of time. Content content expands the timeline of the influence that you can have with the thing that you did.


Kap Chatfield  44:50

Yep. Yeah, I mean, time is the one commodity that you can't, you can't get back. Money comes and goes. We only all we all only have a certain number of hours in the day. So,


Pablo Gonzalez  45:00

I love it, dude. I'm glad we went there, man. Um, yeah. You mentioned something earlier. I love this quote of if your show isn't moving towards a Northstar, you won't see our ROI and you'll quit, right? Like I'd expect. I'm sure you've experienced this with customers where they're like, Nah, man, we're just going to show up and talk about cool stuff. And it's gonna be awesome. And you're like, it doesn't work like that. And two months later, they're turning, right? How do you set up tracking metrics? Right, like, how do you how do you kind of like prove to them that they're tracking towards their Northstar when they ask about that stuff?


Kap Chatfield  45:32

So some of the objectives that I say are shared with you, they're still kind of in beta. Right now, as far as how do we track them, but we do. As you know, we understand what those objectives, we know what we are going to care about. We know what KPIs we want to measure, even if we don't necessarily at this point with these beta versions know the best way to to track that with software, particularly, because then it just cuts out all the time speaking of time. But like revenue's an easy one. I mean, let's say like with the show, and you'd be like, well, revenue is the easy one? Well, it truly is, especially if you're if you're selling a SaaS product where you're selling online, you can track deals that way, or even if you're if you're in professional services. So we are particularly for us, we're a HubSpot partner agency. So we use HubSpot as our as our attribution software to track all this stuff. But when we're putting all of our content, our full episodes, our micro content, we're publishing that through HubSpot. And then we're also inviting those target accounts on the show as featured guests, they become part of the CRM in HubSpot, you're able to see that you're able to see the activity and the buyer journey that they take in order to make a buyer's decision or not make one. So that's a really, that's an easy one to be able to see, hey, you know, and obviously, even within that, it's not linear. And sometimes they're gonna go outside of what can be tracked, and talk amongst other people share content in Slack channels, dark funnel, all that sort of stuff. But you can see, generally, hey, we know that this is positively influencing these decisions, we have it tracked. Another thing that you can look at is like, let's say on the recruiting element. I mean, we had, we haven't done a recruit. Actually, that's not true. We are working on a recruiting show for one of our customers right now. But we had another person who was on our show, that talked about their own show and how they're using it to recruit talent. And they were able to see pretty definitively like, man, we're getting, you know, X amount more applicants because of the show. And the quality, the quality of these applicants is way higher, and the time it takes to actually get them on boarded and to have them sign the contract, it's decreased tremendously. And so it's like, those are all things that you can absolutely track you just, but you got to start with like, hey, what do we want this show to do for us? Yeah. Because if you don't have that, then you don't even know what you're trying to track.


Pablo Gonzalez  48:00

Yeah, yeah. And you know, when I think of somebody that's just crushing recruiting through a show, it's Chris Walker, right? Like, it's clear that he's, he's growing leaps and bounds because of his show. And he's also attracting the best talent with the show. 


Kap Chatfield  48:13

Yeah, dude, it's so true.


Pablo Gonzalez  48:15

And you go back to and you go back to I, I don't know what his training process looks like. But I'm pretty sure that somebody comes in day one at Refined Labs, and they're like, have you watched the first 10 episodes with Gitano Dianardi it or not?


Kap Chatfield  48:29

It really is that easy. And what's so cool is like, we're doing this with our own company right now. Because we're in a, we're in a growth stage, and we're hiring some people. And there's certain key episodes that we've got with featured guests, where even internally right now I'm like, Guys, you need to listen to this episode. Because this like this person, what they said was gold. We need to be thinking about this as we engage our customers. So you like you've already documented it. It takes a little bit of time to like, maybe organize it, but at least it's documented.


Pablo Gonzalez  49:00

Yeah. Yeah. It takes way less time to organize content you've already made than to be like, Oh, right now I gotta write an outline for something.


Kap Chatfield  49:07

I hear so many times, and I love Chris Walker's show. He was actually our first, he's the inaugural featured guest on our on our podcast, and I'll tell you what, 


Pablo Gonzalez  49:16

It was good Interview. You did a great job with him. 


Kap Chatfield  49:19

He helped us get a lot of really cool people on the show, because he's a well known figure. So Chris Walker, if you're listening, just want to give you a shout out. Thank you. Thank you for


Pablo Gonzalez  49:26

We'll clip this out. He was on my show. He did the 100th episode of my show too. And I was like, the guys, yeah,


Kap Chatfield  49:32

Yeah, he's he his generosity of time is just super, super incredible. So but well, I hear a lot from his episodes is like, he says, there's one episode that he did maybe a month ago called Marketing is Purely Offense. And he's like, that's like one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done. Go and listen to that episode. He says that over and over and over again. So I would not be surprised in their onboarding process, they say, Hey, you're on the team. If you haven't listened to this episode, go and listen. And by the way, here's like a five question quiz for you to fill out from what we talked about in that episode, because it's so critical for how you're going to sell our product to future customers.


Pablo Gonzalez  50:09

Dude, I love the idea of because we do this all the time. We see a podcast episode. That's great, we share it in our Slack channel, and we're like, "You got to listen to this". But I think going a step further of saying, what did you hear from this in a quiz form, to evaluate culture fit and or did you really learn what I'm hearing? Right? Like to get feedback from your own team of just like, are we on the same page here, or someone applying would be absolutely brilliant. I've never heard of anybody doing that. But that's smart.


Kap Chatfield  50:43

Well, the reason why I thought about that is because through the HubSpot partner agency that I'm a part of, in order to become a partner agency that that sells for them, they have, they have a whole thing called HubSpot Academy. And it's so smart, like, it's like online, it's an online course, like you felt you watch all these videos, they have a little quiz. And then you have to fill out this exam to prove that you can be certified. And they've automated the whole thing, like they have somebody check your work later, but they have all the content there. And so here's something that's cool. Here's like a hack that we're gonna probably do as a company that I would recommend that you guys consider and other people consider as well. So there's an app called Trainuel. Yeah. And I had this, that I had the CMO of Trainual on our show, his episodes coming out soon, Jonathan Ronzio. Another great guy. But Trainual, if you're not familiar with it to the audience sounds like you know, a little bit. But they're basically it's like an online education platform for businesses for internal purposes. So you onboard a customer or onboard an employee, you have like a whole track for them of like, Hey, here's the documents you need to read, or here's the videos you need to watch. And you can create your own quizzes in the app. And so what we're looking at as a company is like, Dude, we're gonna, you know, we're in a growth phase, we're gonna be onboarding new employees, we should probably invest in that app. But we have all the content already. Let's take the content, clip it up, create the modules, and then create our own quizzes to train the employees. And now they're all learning what we think about. Like, it's brilliant. 


Pablo Gonzalez  52:13

Brilliant, bro. 


Kap Chatfield  52:14

It's educating your entire company at scale, because of your show. Crazy.


Pablo Gonzalez  52:21

Yeah, drop the mic right there, man. That's I think that I think I just I think that was I think we just had podmax climax there, right? Let's take a listen. Man, I'm getting a lot of value out of picking your brain on kind of how you're operating dude. Is there anything? You know, I have a growing agency too, we're doing stuff. Is there anything that take a page out of Chris Walker's book? Is there anything you want to ask me on? Kind of like what we're doing or anything like that is? 


Kap Chatfield  52:47

Yeah, I would you know what, one thing that I've noticed about you and your brand that we don't really have down yet, that I want to better understand is the value of live and the value of community. Because what I see is, you know, we do the pre recorded content, and, and there's the element of live in regards to you share the content on LinkedIn, and you engage with people. You comment when they comment, you're building real relationships. But what you're doing it sounds like is you're helping create live events, if I unless I'm mistaken, and you're building communities around those events, which has allowed, allows you to accelerate those relationships even faster. So I'd love to kind of just hear from you about your philosophy about the power of live events and, and turning audiences into communities.


Pablo Gonzalez  53:34

If I could have asked you to ask me a question, that's the one I would have asked you to ask me, so thank you. 


Kap Chatfield  53:38

All right, perfect. 


Pablo Gonzalez  53:39

Dude, it goes back to time, right? Like, it goes back to the idea that if I'm going to spend the same amount of time talking to you and making content, if I'm talking to you and making content in front of four people, 14 people, 40 people, that is just scaling the amount of time people get to spend with me, right? So you, me and you are building this, like, really nice one to one relationship. And if we're sharing a stage in front of these people, the four, 14 or 40, people also feel like they're getting an hour of our time. And we're only spending an hour. Right? So I'm coming at it. I got to this game, because I'm a fanatical network. I'm obsessed with everybody being my best friend. I want to be your best friend right now. And and I'm just trying to figure out how to get people closer to me without my wife getting mad at me that I'm always hanging out with other people. Right? So 


Pablo Gonzalez  54:27

Yeah. So like, so to me, that's the key man. And I reverse engineered this from the way that we used to build young professional groups for charities in Miami. So, yeah, when we are when you are doing a live show, right, and there is a difference between going live on LinkedIn or going live on Facebook and having people show up to a webinar and be live inside the chat. Right? It's much more intimate there. There might be on their phone, but they're way more engaged than the idea of being able to just scroll one more, right? So if you can put a little bit of extra effort to get three people to show up, right? Like that's three more times the people that you're building relationships with. And then at that point, we're very, very deliberate about the four dynamics of that relationship. Right? There's four vectors. There's the vector between me and my guest. There's the vector between me and the audience that's here. There's the vector between the audience and my guest. And there's a vector from audience to audience, right? So that's this is this is natural. Right? Then it's also pretty natural. You do this really well. When you are speaking to the audience, you don't say you guys are you girls. You're like you. You know that one person is watching this. They're not, you know, our friend that's listening in her ear right now is not sitting in a crowd, she's sitting by herself, right? Or walking the dog or on the bus. But you know, it's a singular experience. So you speak to one person when you're talking to the person in the audience. And I'm acknowledging them as they show up when we do a live show, right? Like do a roll call. Like, all right, "who we got in the house, we got Jerry and we got Kap and we got you know, Suzy and, and whatever. Let me know where you're from. Right? It's like one part wacky am DJ stuff. And if you if you recognize the names that show up again, and you get them to participate and they participate multiple times, you try to remember and you give him like a nickname. Howard Stern did this man, Dan Lebatarde did this right. Like these shows that have grown, that spawn off ancillary supraspinal ancillary stars from their own show, do this really, really well? Right. So like, I'm very conscious of that media audience. And then when they're asking a question, I'm a big believer that the more context you add to a question, the better, right? So if we were doing this live, and my friend Lauren asked a question, I wouldn't just take the question be like, alright, Kap, what are the three things I need to do to make a show about athletes transitioning into the workforce? I'll say, Oh, here's Lauren Amon, who, you know, is my friend from the badass Business Summit. She is a former athlete that is now coaching athletes to transition into the workforce. And she has this question. It feels like a warm introduction, right? Like that. Yeah, that does two things, right? It gives Lauren a piece of the stage. And it also allows you to give a better answer. Right? Like, if you can now understand that it sets you up to give more value. Right? And oh, man, and then the fourth vector is just the idea of like, you see someone chatting, it might not be a question, but like, oh, man, yeah. You know, Cameron in the chat, that's really, really smart. Connect with Cameron, check out that thing that he said. You know, like getting people to make friends in the chat and then connect with them on LinkedIn. You know, every time that that person kind of like sees a message from that person from there on out, they know that they met on your show, right? So like, I just think it's like the, that accelerates the flywheel of like the compounding effect of that of that interest piece. And it just takes a little bit of extra effort to promote it. And if only two people show up, who cares? It's still two more people than the relationship we would have been building right now.


Kap Chatfield  54:27

Sure, yeah. 


Kap Chatfield  57:55

And you still have the recorded content, you still have that to put out there. But the depth of relationship just goes so much further, because you've built that personal connection. You're acknowledging like, Hey, you're, you're a part of this experience. We acknowledge you right now. Like that's a cool feeling. Even when I'm on Instagram Live, or I see somebody else's Instagram Live, maybe it's a friend of mine, and I say like, Hey, what's up? I'm listening. And they're like, Yo, what's up Kap? Good to see you in live. It's like, awesome. Like, they gave me a shout out. It just, it draws you in. And so yeah, I love how your point is, is like, don't get so caught up in the width or the of, you know, how many people you're reaching or how many people are jumping on. But are the right people jumping on? Yeah. And do they feel like there's a deep enough connection where they'll come, where they'll come back. I think that's the ultimate way to, to measure the value of that.


Pablo Gonzalez  58:47

Thanks, man. And listen, if you take it a step further, and you're thinking about the micro content, right? Like, this is something that I learned from Gary Vee. I see Gary Vee giving keynotes that are 20 minutes and then going into q&a, right? 


Kap Chatfield  58:59

Q&A dude. Huge. 


Pablo Gonzalez  59:01

Yeah, it's huge. Because A, I've I've now been to multiple events with Gary Vee. And I've met Gary Vee a couple of times and, and I and I understand that if I ask a good enough question, I'm gonna make it into his Instagram feed. And that's fame for me. Right? So it brings, it makes me want to show up to a Gary Vee event. Well, the other thing that happens is, Gary Vee has the same four answers to every question in the world, right? It's make more content, self awareness, paticence, empathy but the employee All right, yeah. So if I see someone that looks like me ask a question. And the answer is content. I'm going to believe it more. If I see someone that asked a question the way that I would have asked it, and the answer is content. I'm going to believe it more. If I see someone that dresses like me ask a question and the answer is content. I'm going to believe it more. So being able to crowdsource the context for that for the answer that you know is so universal is golden.


Kap Chatfield  1:00:00

That's Oh, that's money. I love that. I'm a big Gary Vee fan. That's a that's a great I love how he does that because there's something powerful about not just receiving one way communication of like, let me get lectured to. But when you hear real case studies of like, here's what I'm going through, I need a solution and seeing how that solution which you said it's like this the platter of five different things every time but specifically how that thing applies to that certain scenario that you can relate with as an audience member. That can be that can be the thing that tips the scale


Pablo Gonzalez  1:00:34

100% man. 100% And if you any of you can create a library of that content you now have FAQs, you now have like all this other context stuff, right? Like the compounding interest of all this stuff. And you're sharing the stage over and over you're sharing the you're allowing them to be the show as well, right?


Kap Chatfield  1:00:50

Yep, yep.


Pablo Gonzalez  1:00:52

Dude this was awesome man. Give me tell our friend that's just been listening to how awesome you are, where to find you, where to connect with you, promote whatever you want to promote man.


Kap Chatfield  1:01:02

My thing is I am back to personal relationships I got one call to action right now. Hit me up on LinkedIn, connect with me, shoot me a note and just let me know that you that you saw me on Pablo's show and I think that's let's just begin a conversation from there like that, to me is the most valuable thing that can happen.


Pablo Gonzalez  1:01:21

I love that man. And check out the B2B Podcasting podcast with Kap. It's awesome like I'm I'm a student of the game and I'm learning from it too. I think it's really really good. Rveal Media, we'll link all that stuff in the show notes man. Kap I appreciate you hopping on man. I don't think I appreciate the non scarcity mentality of somebody that I can reach out to it's pretty obvious that our stuff overlaps you were without any hesitation like Hell yeah, man. Let's hop on and talk. I think that that is the type of person that I want to be associated with and I'm happy to be guilty by association with you today man. So thanks for coming on bro. I appreciate it.


Kap Chatfield  1:01:57

Absolutely. Abundance mentality and there's there's clearly a reason why we are building an industry together and it's super exciting to see you doing it. Keep crushing what you're doing, and thanks for having me on the show, bro.


Pablo Gonzalez  1:02:09

Cool, man. Expand the tent.


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