The latest episode of B2B Podcasting brings another episode full of wisdom for today’s business leader looking to refresh their thinking, scale their business and step into a new season of growth. 
Check it out today!
Learn how to grow your business no matter what size it is Discover new marketing models for today’s digital landscape How a B2B podcast can help you reach your audience more effectively Maintain a human connection in business if you want to set yourself apart B2B podcasts have real, qualitative results
00:00-04:34 | The C-Suite Network is for any business leader no matter its size 04:34-08:07 | As a business leader your main focus should be growth 08:07-14:13 | Why business leaders hesitate to adopt new marketing models 14:13-19:20 | How a podcast can help you refine your message for your audience 19:20-24:34 | The human touch will be the BIG differentiator in business in the future 24:34-31:17 | Follow a strategy with your podcast guests for lasting business relationships 31:17-33:31 | What is the ROI of starting a B2B podcast? 33:31-43:16 | Discover your podcast narrative and run with it
“Our job isn't to be the smartest person in the room—it's to be the most strategic person in the room.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett “I don't know of a C-suite executive that's not focused on growth.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett “C-suite executives like to hang out with other C-suite executives and have very trusted conversations where they can be vulnerable.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett “If your business is not growing, you're dying.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett “You are the brand, the brand is you—sell the brand, sell you.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett “This landscape of digital communication is here to stay—it's not an accessory or a luxury, it's a necessity.” - Kap Chatfield “You're using the show to develop deeper and wider relationships for business and for your content.” - Kap Chatfield “Having that personal human touch is going to be the unique differentiator for businesses in the future.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett ”ROI is about getting your message out and then really creating yourself as a category leader.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett “What you need to do is get to the right people with the right message at the right time—that's it.” - Jeffrey Hayzlett- Rveal’s website: rveal.media
- Rveal’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rvealmedia/
- Rveal’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC69p14R2ccMdyUbbmdlWCEw
Full transcription:
Kap Chatfield 00:20
Hey gang, welcome back to B2B Podcasting, the show to help B2B CEOs, brand leaders, sales leaders and marketers skip ads and be the show. I'm your host, Kap Chatfield. Today, I got Jeffrey Hayzlett, I got him to say "yes" to joining us on the show today. He is a, he's a content mastermind, he's a Business Mastermind. He's the chairman of the C-suite network. He's also the mastermind behind C-suite Radio and C-suite TV. He's primetime TV and radio host. And he's also the former Fortune 100 CMO. And so it makes it makes complete sense that he is a genius at what he does. So Jeff, thanks so much for joining us on the show today.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 00:59
Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Kap Chatfield 01:01
It's gonna be a lot of fun. So hey, I want to just kick it off, just give a little bit more context into who you are. I know you've been doing business for a while; you've also rubbed shoulders of some pretty high profile people in the business world. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your backstory with getting into business and starting C-suite?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 01:17
Wow. Well, it started decades ago, you know? I had started a public relations firm; I came out of political campaigns. And then I went out and started buying up companies. I bought a printing company, was the first thing I bought, then a cellular company and then a whole bunch of a TV station and a whole bunch of other things. And then over my career, I've ended up buying and selling over 250 businesses in my career, about $25 billion in transactions. My last big company with that I was at was a major, major corporation that was about 187 billion; I ran a budget of about 17 billion, just in marketing. At the time when I was the CMO of Eastman Kodak. I left there, went on to become a television host on Bloomberg and commentator. And then that led me to start the C-suite network as well. So we started the C-suite network now with about 10,000 paying members and of roughly 350,000 members have opted in 90 million views a month, millions of downloads a month to our podcast, and everything else has kind of led me to, you know, teaching people how to use content to build their business. And that's what we've been doing.
Kap Chatfield 02:23
So who exactly would fit the profile of a C-suite member?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 02:27
Anyone that's a VP or higher of any business. I mean, that's the C-suite. Whether you're, you know, you're a business on Main Street or your business on Wall Street, whether you're you know, like the Vice President of Finance for a small company, or you're the CFO of a major company, you still fill that role. And that's what you do, it's just a matter of zeros. There's no difference between a business on Main Street in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and one on Wall Street, just numbers of zeros. And so when you think of it like that, you understand that the same roles and responsibilities, the same things that we have to do, you know, our job isn't to be the most, or the smartest person in the room. It's to be the most strategic person in the room. And so, you know, that's certainly what the C-suite network does. But when you think about you know, an organization, you think about the role, well, the C suites made up of lots of different people who you know, manage and lead that business. So many organizations are as you know, Kap are focused on just a CEO, or just the marketers, you know? Or just or just sales or whatever it might be. And so what we did was decided that, you know, I had the show on Bloomberg called the C-suite, which Jeffrey Hayzlett, is the number one business show at the time, primetime show. Of course, I'll we'll get into this a minute, when was the last time you rushed home to watch a primetime television?
Kap Chatfield 03:36
Great question.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 03:38
Yeah, nice business show. Let's just be clear, because you're B2B Podcast so you know, you know, we don't get we're hey, look, we're sexy but we're sexy to a smaller audience because we're all about business. So you know, I had great success, it was the number one show, you know grossed more viewers, grossed more dollars, netted more dollars gross more dollars. And it was great and important for me, because I owned the show, and then I just happened to use Bloomberg as one of the, as the main distribution set center. But while I was there I started having more people watch me more online they were watching through broadcast and I remember the President CEO of the network called me, said, "what the hell are you doing?" I said, "doing my job man". And I said, "we should go take this digital and you know run this as a digital show" and they said, "well, we're not interested" so I said "bye bye". And you know, started started C-suite TV, which then led into C-suite radio, which is our podcast network. Our podcast network has grown like crazy.
Kap Chatfield 04:34
So man, okay, there's so many different trails I want to go down with everything that you unpack. So I'm going to save some of that for the second half of the episode when we when we get really into the power of show marketing is what we call at Rveal Media. But I'm curious I want to know more about the C suite members and I love how you guys are kind of agnostic to size of company. I even understand and how you guys have structured C suite, you kind of have different levels of involvement. You know, if you're at a place where you're running a small business, there's an opportunity for you to pay a little bit less, you're obviously have to take on a little bit more responsibility in applying what you're learning, but it allows you to get in the door. And then you guys offer all the way up the spectrum to people who are running way bigger companies, and they outsource a lot of strategy to you guys. But I think at the core of it foundationally, what do you think is really driving all of these suite C-suite members? Like what do they really desire for their companies?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 05:27
Growth. I mean, every I don't know of a C-suite executive that's not focused on growth. So how do you grow your, how do you grow your business? How do you grow your knowledge? How do you grow your reach? Your discoverability? Your conversion? And so that's what we help to focus on is to create a platform and a community, a trusted place, where you can come and have those kinds of conversations. Whether it's a little bit about inspiration, motivation, some education, or even monetization, right? Of the business itself. But you need all of those to be balanced as an executive. And so you need a place to be able to do it. And I found that C suite executives like to hang out with other C suite executives. They like to have very trusted conversations behind the wall where they can be vulnerable, they can have a, you know, open conversation and say, "I don't know what that means. Can you explain that?" Or, you know, "I do know what that means. How do I accelerate it?" Right. And so that's, that's what we found to be true. And it's been very interesting, and the conversation that goes on in the C suite are different conversations that go on in the rest of the business.
Kap Chatfield 06:31
Sure.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 06:31
That doesn't mean that one's more important than the other is just one's much more strategic and taking and looking. You know, I'm chairman, vice chairman; I've served on numerous boards today for a number of different companies, many of them public, many of them not. And, you know, my conversations are typically always about how do I help the company scale? And, you know, when I have those conversations about scale, I just went as the vice chairman, on an exercise leadership exercise for all the employees 150,000, or excuse me, 150 employees in the company. And you can see already want to scale already 150 to 150,000. I think I think about and, and yet, the CEO, and myself as the vice chairman of the company, the only two who had keywords for next year and talking about next year's plan, and that was the we used the word scale. Nobody else in the entire company, used scale. Now, some of the other C suite executives use things like trust, efficiencies, things like that, which are very, very good words, and very good themes for the things that we have to do. But yet here was the CEO and myself, who acts much like a CEO, for that particular company, and we were worried about scale. So the C suite thinks about different things. It just, that's just the nature of the nature of the beast.
Kap Chatfield 07:46
So being so close to these individuals, and of course, I mean, if you're not in the if you're not thinking about growth in the C suite, it's probably not, you're not gonna last in the C suite, probably that long on.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 07:55
Not only that, but change, adapt, change or die, brother, right? I mean, that's the name of the game. If you if you don't, if you're not thinking about growth every single day, if you're not growing, you're dying. Let's just be very clear. If your business is not growing, you're dying.
Kap Chatfield 08:07
That's a quote, we'll make sure to put that in a quote, graphic, "If you're not growing, you're dying". But there's so, here's the thing that I think, and this is where I'm really interested in getting your perspective as not just a businessman, but a CMO, your CMO, mind your media mind: what problem do a lot of these C suite level executives, what problem do they have that maybe they don't realize that they're actually facing in the 21st century?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 08:33
They're playing the old game, not the new game. You know, listen, COVID changed a lot of things for us. You might say, "Well, no, it accelerated it", and it did accelerate. That's really what it was. The game for the digital, in terms of how we were selling before, the old models don't work. Broadcast? Forget about it. It's narrowcast. It's more narrowcast. It's segments of one. It's how to find those individuals and create individual kinds of connections and relationships that you can do it at a larger scale or at you know, multiple, and step and repeat. And so for a long time, it was a great when COVID first hit March 13 of whenever it was it, when it hit it, it was like everybody was transformed. I said to everybody, "Look, we can't sit around and whine and cry and eat bonbons on the couch. What we have to do is we have to thrive and survive and more than survive, we have to thrive and drive". And so I said right away, we have to become business first responders. And there was this great cartoon of these executives sitting in a corner office of a skyscraper. And they're saying this digital thing is gonna pass us by. And here was a great big wrecking ball that was about to hit their suite, and it was called COVID-19. And so what we found with COVID is that days became weeks, weeks became months, months became years and years became decades. And that's what we're in right now. And so we're in a race and you have to understand that you're in a different kind of transformation for the business, and most business leaders aren't thinking about it. And so they're still relying on what used to work like, "Oh, I gotta get on TV. Oh, I got to get on radio, oh, I got to go do these things I got to use direct mail, I got to do this", as opposed to "No, dude, what you, and were gonna get into this, I know the next half hour, but you got to use content". Yep. And you have to drive content; you have to be a content machine. And I've been saying this for 10 years, that you are the brand, the brand is you. So you sell the brand, sell the brand sell you. And to do that whether you're a, you know, a dry cleaner on Main Street, or you're a major corporation with high level executives, you need to be an extension of brand, you have to show that you're the king of spots, or you're the category leader. And those are the things we'll talk about, I know in the next, next portion of your show.
Kap Chatfield 10:05
What do you think? Why do you think so many business leaders are still I mean, last year was a catalytic year for all of us. But I still see a lot of b2b leaders they're, they're still kind of struggling to embrace like, "Hey, this is this is not going away. Those this this landscape of digital communication, it's here to stay. It's not an accessory. It's not a luxury to your business. It's a necessity". What do you think?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 11:16
It's, it's in its infancy. Because I'll tell you why, because they're stupid. That's why. Listen, let's just be very clear, you, look, we're lazy, we like getting things set up, like most b2b businesses love to set it up, get it set and get it right, and then we put it in place. Well, that's, when you lock it in is the time we need to start to look at breaking it. I mean, is when you get it to perfect, you next thing is you got to get the good, gooder the better, better. And that you know, the bigger, bigger. I mean, that's in essence of what you have to do at a b2b business. I mean, that's, that's the name of the game. You should understand that nothing ever stays the same. It's constant change, constant improvement, you know, constant efficiencies that you should be striving for. And so, you know, we forget that, we get comfortable. You know, we're making good money, we're making, in fact for a lot of businesses pre COVID were doing great. And now, I don't know, during COVID, I actually increased my sales, I increase my profitability, I increased my ability to, to build the business. And I know a lot of people who did that too, even though it sucked. It totally sucked. Let's be clear. This was not fun. You know, the way we had to do things, you had to do a totally different. You know, I used to, at C suite network, we used to have 100 face-to-face programs a year. Whoa, Well, last year, we went to 300 online. Now, that's a lot of work. I don't know, that's a program a day. And that means you have to you just change the way you got to do it and but I'm so glad that we did.
Kap Chatfield 12:44
And you guys adapted and you guys are thriving because of it. I can I can tell. And you've really, man, I'll just say this, like I don't know if you've if you've said this to you about your guys's company yourself, but you guys have basically created the Netflix of B2B podcasts. Like you have, you created a whole new category of content creation for a very specific audience that has a very specific desire and problem that stands in their way.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 13:08
And the most, one of the most affluent audiences in the world. I
Kap Chatfield 13:12
Talk about a revenue generator.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 13:13
Yes, spending side and we hear that all the time. So we get a we get a multiple on advertising as opposed to what other people do and we grew the listenership last year by 450%, new shows by 120%. New episodes by 137% and we're still going. So you know, it was a "Yeah, let's do it some more". When, when, by the way, overall, podcasting was down and viewership was down overall, for the most part. But we grabbed a bigger share of the marketplace and established a category, which is around again, like b2b. And that's what you want to do. You want to be able to show people what they do. And again, what was our thing? It was to increase our reach, our relevancy, reach and reciprocity. And of course, that we added a four R called respect. So and that was an important thing that we wanted to do. And so in doing so, it increased our reach and our, our discovery. And then of course, what comes with discovery? Conversion. Name of the game. So you know, we look at it very specific. And, you know, could we have done better? Yeah, could we have done worse? Oh, heck, yeah. But we did pretty good. So we're happy with.
Kap Chatfield 14:13
So, explain to me a little bit about this model. Because, I mean, think about this. I mean, there's hundreds of ways that people could do digital marketing, you know? Just take traditional marketing, legacy marketing off the table, but you went deep, and specifically into B2B podcasting as a solution to this problem for your members. Why B2B podcasting?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 14:43
Well, two ways. One, because you need, there's a it's a platform for people to tell their story and two, that's where people were. I mean, you got to think about this. The average person listens to eight different podcasts from five different shows. Okay? Men over the age of 50, the highest wrote growing audience, which is really interesting, because that's who leads a lot of the businesses. Now don't get me into diversity and inclusion and all that stuff. I'm just giving you the facts.
Kap Chatfield 15:09
Sure.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 15:10
I don't think that should be the case, but nonetheless, that's what it is. And so the that population and most of the population that's looking to get to listen happens to be business owners, business executives, people running the businesses, managers, and the like. Now, I think most of them are just trying to finally figure out how to download an apple podcast, but nonetheless, you know, so that they can use a podcast on their phones. I think they finally just figured it out. Took them about a year. But nonetheless, it's a growing category. Then you look at podcast just as a general, Kap. I mean, in the industry, if you were to compare podcasting, a lot of people say, "oh, there's over 2 million podcast" Though, it's oversaturated. Are you nuts? Not even close, dude. You know, you said it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm using it generically. Whoever said that had to be some stupid.
Kap Chatfield 16:00
Tell that dude out there.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 16:01
Yeah, tell that dude, whoever that I punch him in the face or punch him in the throat because that's, these ridiculous. Because if you look at the average, that you take a podcast and say it's the industry is a person. It's in the teenage years. It's in the early adolescence, right now. We've got a long ways to go. There will be millions and millions and millions and millions of millions of podcasts, just like there'll be millions of TV shows coming up. So because people are going to create content, much like they did with blogs, but we moved past blogs. Why? Because we're very auditory. We're very visual. I mean, you can be, you could be listening to podcasts while you're vacuuming. You could be listening to a podcast while you're on the train or driving in a car or working out, you know? And which we find out all the time. I mean, I could tell you some podcast, who, I mean, that's there, in 40. I got one podcast like Shep Hyken, 47% of his audience listens on an apple I watch.
Kap Chatfield 16:58
Whoa.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 16:59
Yeah, exactly. Now, and he's a he's a he's a top podcaster for he's in the top 50 for us. And, yeah, that tells me they're listening while they're working out. We and we know these kinds of things. So it's kind of interesting to see, we capture behavior, if you can capture behavior. Now, had he doing an hour-long podcast, he would have a drop off. But yet he keeps his podcast under 30 minutes, which is perfect. Because he's picking up those people and capturing the behavior and they weren't listening, whether working out or listening, whether in a commute. These are the kind of cool things you start to find out.
Kap Chatfield 17:32
That's amazing. I need to look into that a little bit more about the Apple Watch connection. That's, that's pretty remarkable.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 17:37
Well, that's a cool thing with us. We give you the metrics behind the scenes. So you can go and look who's listening to you. What cities are they? I mean, I can tell you, you know, I have a podcast, we're in the top, in our in our top 10. I'm not the number one, Robert Kiyosaki, he knocks me out every month. And Aaron from Real Estate Rockstars knocks me out every single month, but excellent, excellent podcast. We got some unbelievable shows. And but I go in there and I constantly, right now I have I have it up on the screen. And I'm watching who's listening to me. And I found out the second largest audience I have outside of North America, meaning US and Canada. I kind of treat them as one kind of like Canada's America's hat. You know, it's like that. Yeah. Sorry, Canadians, I hope you don't mind. And so the second largest audience I have is in India.
Kap Chatfield 18:22
Wow, how about that?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 18:23
Well think about that. But that changes the way that I want to talk to people, because I found out, you know, I used to say things like, "hey, after the show, I'm going to go for a big juicy steak and a scotch". Right? And probably not the coolest thing to say about having beef to the folks from India, right? Yeah. So I learned to change my references to "hey, I'm going to go for a big whiskey, and a great bendy or curry after the show", you know, or something like that. So I'm being inclusive in my conversations, from the data that I'm trying to pick up. And what what's the important thing there? Not only has my listenership in India increased, right? But also I'm just getting more messages back from fans that are writing to me. And then I pick up whiskey sponsor, because they're the second largest whiskey drinking population in the world. Wow. So these are things that are really cool to note, especially if you're b2b. Or if you're a b2c, and I happen to be b2b, which is some b2c. So a little bit of both.
Kap Chatfield 19:20
I love how you're using the data that you're pulling from your show to to get a better context of your audience. Because really, what you're communicating to me is you're using the show to develop deeper and wider relationships, for business and for your your content.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 19:37
Well, you would want to know that. Let's think about b2b from a perspective an airline. So for instance, I was with one airline years ago, a number of years ago, I used to fly on that airline a couple 100,000 miles a year, which in its and by the way, had over 2 million miles of at the time. And I also split it, and so I decided to leave that airline and go to another airline, and they would honor my points, honor my status and give me status. When I left that airline, now that you with that much flying, couple 100,000 miles a year, that means I'm flying almost every day. And you should know that if I stop flying, it should send off an alarm in the headquarters of the marketing department in that particular company. And they would want to send you know, they should send you a letter and go, are you okay? Have you have you died? Or, you know, what's the what's the matter, Mr. Hayzlett? Have we not, or are we not taking care of you? Yet I never got anything, right? So they didn't pay attention to that. Well, and you know, to give that personal service, that's what we're looking for. Everybody wants that, right? So you want to make sure that you're, it's, I call it a servant leadership kind of activity, it's servant content, servant way of being able to approach your business and that is paying attention to you, what is it you want? Not the way I want to do it, trust me, because there's a lot of times on the podcast or stuff I do every single day in business, I don't want to do it that way, cuz I want to do it my way. But my way doesn't come, you know, doesn't result in sales. It doesn't result in deeper relationships. So I've got to do it the way you want to do it. That's the most important thing that I think also, you asked about why people don't do things, and I think that's the other thing. Wow, look at the problem that you're trying to solve, you try to do it based on what you do. I mean, let's think about b2b and or even b2c marketing. You know, somebody invented an 800 number. Okay? That I mean, some sadistic bastard, put that out there and said, "This is a really good thing, we should do an 800 number, we should have it automated. You should never talk to human being". You know, I called a called one of the airlines the other day, and they ask instead of me waiting to talk to somebody would would you like to text me instead? I have there was a texting option. Like I got a problem with my my flights, you know, I want to text you back and forth? I don't think so. You know, you know, it's it's amazing how what we do, what we do to not not be personable in business.
Kap Chatfield 22:07
It's so wild, though, because I feel like as companies try to get more and more automated, having that personal human touch is going to be the unique differentiator for businesses in the future.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 22:19
Oh, totally. Yeah, and by the way you can charge more. And you could charge more for it!
Kap Chatfield 22:23
Sure, you should. Yeah, you absolutely should. Because people like in your scenario right? There, people don't want to talk to a robot, they want to talk to a human being. And that's why I feel like the podcast element, especially for b2b, you know, obviously, I want you to speak into this, I want to kind of set up some context and the things that I'm seeing, and would love for you to just kind of share your input. But especially in the world of like professional services, consulting, coaching, where your expertise, your thought leadership, is going to directly contribute to the growth of your business. But the more that people know that you know what you're talking about, the more that your business is going to grow. And I don't see any medium out there quite like video, video podcasting, particularly where people can see they can see you, they can get to know your personality. And they can be, they can they can become more acquainted with your expertise. I feel that that's such an important content distribution strategy in order to build those relationships.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 23:20
Oh, and game on in fact, we'll talk in a minute about what's the, and you can ask me, "What's the biggest reason why you should do a podcast or who should you interview?"
Kap Chatfield 23:30
I want to ask you that right now. Why don't you, why don't we get
Jeffrey Hayzlett 23:32
It I got a point I want to make. Because one of the things it drives me crazy, since you said trainers and coaches and thought leaders, yep, I go to their websites. Here, they do one on one coaching. Yet their their email address is info @ and then they have no phone number for you to be able to get to them. Well, which is it? Look, you're it's one on one. If it's one on one, don't you think you should be personal? By the way, normally, I put in my little name there that you see on the screen, I actually put my email, or I put my cell phone number. In fact, many times when I'm doing a program, we did a program the other day for 3000 people online, I put my cell phone number, I said text me if you want, and it's my number. And during the presentation, people are actually texting me. But you know, I can't answer them. But my gosh, of course I want that. There's a pony in there somewhere. Yeah, you know? I mean, many times from speeches and so forth. You know, I was on the board for DocuSign and which went public about a year and a half ago for $21 billion. I got that from a speech. Right? Wow. So you want that. Okay, getting back to your question. What's the number one reason why you should be doing a podcast? I mean, there's reasons for it. But here's the thing I want to take on that twist of it. You should do a business podcast, not where you're trying to interview every guru in the world. But to interview the people you want to do business with.
Kap Chatfield 24:51
Ooh, let's talk about that.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 24:53
That is the that's the biggest plus that we tell every podcaster that comes into the C suite radio, into our podcast network is, look, don't concentrate and don't worry about the downloads. Downloads don't mean, you know what. They don't, they really truly don't. Now, we'd love you to have good downloads, but better content will lead you to more downloads, which then leads to advertisers and leads to that. You let you let that you let your network worry about that, you let me worry about that stuff. Because I'll grow, give you more podcast listeners than you will by yourself if you're off in podcast purgatory. So being with a network is a very important thing. But what you want to do is imagine if you're doing a weekly podcast and you're coach, a trainer, an author, a speaker, you want to or your again, this dry cleaner. Do business by interviewing the people you want to do business with. Right? So if you're, if you're, you know, the dry cleaner on the corner, you're going to talk to people who have spots, you're going to talk to people who need lots of cleaning, you know, for maybe it's a hotel, or whatever. And you're going to talk about their problems and their things and then work in the things that you do, and how you do it to be that category leader. And I'll guarantee you, you will walk away with business. I mean, there's so many times I've interviewed executives for franchises and associations and groups and so forth. And afterwards they go, that was awesome. And then I send them a copy of my book and I say, "Oh, by the way, let me send one of my books to every one of your officers in your company". And, and then they go, "Oh, my gosh, I'd love to have you come and speak at our next convention. Jeff, I would love to have you on my board". I would love, that's what you want to focus on folks, is go to where the people are, and go to where the people are you want to do business with and then have those great conversations which lead to those great relationships, which lead to the breakthroughs which lead to the ideas, and pretty soon they'll be asking to do business with you. That's what you do.
Kap Chatfield 26:49
Okay? Okay, that was a mic drop. That was that's so, hey, I'll be honest, check this out. I that's how I got you on the show. Not necessarily that I'm trying to do business with you, hey, I'm not I'm not against it. But the point is, is that I reached out to you and I offered you an opportunity to jump on the show, you were way more receptive to that than me just giving you a cold pitch of like, "Hey, here's my product, here's my service".
Jeffrey Hayzlett 27:10
Game on
Kap Chatfield 27:11
Here we are, there because now this is content for you as well. So but here, I want to I want to push back because and I've experienced this personally, just with people on the show that have talked about, "hey, if you're going to invite people on the show, make sure that you're not selling them" and I try
Jeffrey Hayzlett 27:25
You don't have to sell them just talk about stuff.
Kap Chatfield 27:27
Love it. So that's what I want you to talk about right now is
Jeffrey Hayzlett 27:29
Let's have a conversation, you have a conversation. So let's imagine I'm with the CEO of KOA campgrounds or something and we're talking about the stuff he does and how he's innovative. And I just happen to bring on what well you know, when I was speaking in another convention of franchisors, one of the people in the audience asked me about this, "is that an issue for you?" Boom, now, he knows I spoke to franchisors, now he knows I'm dealing with an issue that might be his issue. You know, you don't have to be sneaky about it, you don't have to be direct about it, you can just be you know, you. And that's the most important thing you want to do. Now, a lot of times I'm on podcast, and of course, they the podcast host speaks more than the person that's the guest. That's not cool. You want to you know, I was on a conversation today with a MIT professor who wrote a great book about how to compete against the giants like LinkedIn, the giants like Amazon, they linked you know, Walmart, and it was for small businesses on how to compete against us. And I think I, I just, I just asked a bunch of questions. And I think I normally ask about 10 to 15 questions per interview, I think I asked three or four that interview, I was listening so much. hmm, You know? So and then occasionally throw some stuff in, but you know, you know, let them, let them lead it, let them get to where they want to, they're gonna tell you what everything you need to know.
Kap Chatfield 28:54
I love that. And I love how you're able to create an opportunity for them to, because I'm guessing they find value in it because they get to, you know, present themselves as a thought leader, it's more content for them, more PR for them. And you get the benefit of having a 60 minute conversation with this high profile individual, a target account even that you'd want to do business with. So, So you took all of those and that's how you built your network?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 29:17
Yeah, and mine's a little bit less than the target accounts anymore because I've been there done that. And but you know, and I'm doing it to help teach people what they have to do to get to the next stages of their business in terms of scale. To think big and act bigger and that's what we do with all business, that's my show. And, and I'm using it to promote obviously the C-suite network because we're a marquee show, you know? When I started my podcast with CBS with a play it network, it had four major anchors we had, Carson Daly for pop, Jennifer Beal for health and beauty. We had, what's his name, Boomer Esiason for sports, and then I was the business anchor. And then each one of us lead we're the heads of those different things and, and, and then CBS decided to get out of the podcasting business. And when they did, I said, "Well, there's 28 of these business podcasts, you mind if I talk to them?" And they go, "No, go ahead". So that's how I started C suite radio. I just I took them all and said, "Tomorrow, I'm going to start C suite radio". And then Yeah, we started with that. And I ended up with only about five. You know, as you know, in the podcast industry, there's a lot of podcasts paid only, you know, if you look on Apple podcast, only 48% of them have a only 48% of all podcasts on Apple have only one episode. Hmm. And then 36%, or something like that, 36 or 38% of those have only 10 episodes. Whoa. So to get to that, you know, like, some of us, like I have, I think 600 700 or something like that. Would to get to that level, you you've really got to be doing a lot, you know? And really, you know, really pushing it and you have to get through that what I call that that initial podcast phase, the honeymoon period. Yep. Which is, you know, I tell everybody, especially getting into b2b podcasts, you got to do at least 10 before I take you serious.
Kap Chatfield 31:17
I couldn't agree more. I think that's its, consistency is everything. But this is what I would think would keep people from, especially business leaders from moving forward with it, because they're not doing this as a hobby. They're doing this as a business generator. And so I want to talk to you about ROI right now. What would you say to a business leader who's, who's going to ask you the question, "Jeff, what would actually be the ROI of starting a b2b podcast?"
Jeffrey Hayzlett 31:41
Well, first of all, that's a great question. I think it's really about what are your condition satisfaction? What do you want to drive? Alright? Because most of the time, you don't think of the things that you want to drive? And by the way, you don't have to do it, you could have hire somebody else, you could, you could, I was just talking to Tom Chapman last night, who runs 28 podcasts on our C suite network, he's an attorney has tons of tons of podcasts, that's all he does, is on compliance. And, and ES and so forth. And you can hire somebody to do a series for you. Yeah, you can have somebody do it, you can hire a host to do it for you. You know, there's a number of different ways you can do it. Obviously, you can just go on podcast like crazy, but the ROI really is about getting your message about and then really creating yourself as a category leader. That's, that's the that's the name of the game, is you have to position yourself to be the thought leader in your vertical, your audience that that you want to do business with. And how to best do that? Well, media is the best way. So are you likely to have a TV show? Well, not all of us look like me, you know? We don't have, you're not going to be eye candy. There you go. No, absolutely. There you go. Yeah. But my point is, we can't always do all those things that we'd like to do. But podcasting is a great way to be able to do that. It's very easy to do. You don't need a lot of heavy equipment. When I first got started in podcasting and you need 4 or 5000 dollars. Today, you can get started for about 150 bucks. I mean, literally true, you know? You've already got all the stuff for zoom anyway, so there you go. And you just got to find the right kind of network to affiliate with, somebody that produce it for you, you could do it yourself. You know, there's nothing that time, money or expertise can't solve. But the real ROI comes in establishing yourself with the message that you have into being the leader of your category, whatever that is.
Kap Chatfield 33:31
How do you, how do you help people clarify what their narrative should be? And how do they make themselves unique in a very noisy market?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 33:39
You know, it's a great, you know, you can do it. You think like innovation, let's let's say like innovation. Everybody's talking about innovation, innovation, innovation. We had a podcaster get started and we were looking at the name and we finally came up with the right name, it's called Gobsmacked, which is an Australian terms that you know, if you if you ever had something fall on top of your head, you've been gobsmacked. And that's that was that one thing that stood out, but he was able to interview companies who had those gobsmacked moments, right? That's a way to stand out. There's lots of different ways that you can focus on how you stand out. It doesn't have to be your story. It can be lots of other people's stories, you find ways to do it. The most interesting way to be really good at podcasting is to get the stories, you know? Get the stories, get the lessons and then be succinct in it in terms of making it interesting, you know? You know, if you think you you're going to be famous from podcasting, that's usually not the case. If you think everybody's gonna follow you, you know, and it's gonna be huge numbers, that's usually not the case. You know, I've had to have conversations with people that go "Why isn't, why aren't I growing?" Well, because you suck. You know, you're just not doing the stuff right that you need to do and, and you know, you need to have those kinds of conversations with yourself but like, "Is it is it interesting? Am I boring? Am I asking the right kind of questions?" What's the, you know, all those things got to be in the mix of it. But you know, you can just again, I always look at it most people who are listening to podcasts, I mean, it's a very, very personal media, you're inside someone's head. You know, the sound is important, that the you know what's going, on how you say the story, the way it is, you should frame those things and understand what that means. Because, you know, you're it's a very personal media, it's not like someone else is reading it, they turn the page, I mean, you're in their head.
Kap Chatfield 35:32
That man, that right there is such an interesting concept. You're, when people subscribe to your podcast or listen to an episode, they have given you permission to live inside of their head for a little while. Yeah, that's amazing.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 35:48
Yeah, you can, and by the way, there's so many other choices out there that they give me more. You know, how do they find you in, you know, the way I grow is through just through referrals. I mean, that's the number one way we grow is people referring to other people in the make making mention of the you know, the show to other friends. At the end of every show, I say thanks for I thank everybody for listening, don't forget how we grow. It's how you tell other people, so please tell somebody about the show.
Kap Chatfield 36:14
I love to hear some personal stories about ROI for your show, or even some of the the C suite members that have put their show on your network. What are some stories that have come up of like, whether quantitative results or qualitative results because they committed to that, that well content model?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 36:30
Most of the time, they're getting there, they're doing a lot of time, they're doing business, not with every guest, but they're doing business with a certain number of guests. So if it's a coach trainer, a thought leader, they or let's imagine you're an accounting firm, and you're interviewing, you know, big businesses and clients or potential clients. They're getting a portion of that, that's one. Two, there are obviously, you know, if you see your podcast going up 40%, you know, year over year, you're getting greater reach, so you get a better discovery for your business. But what we hear the most about Kap, and I think you probably get this is people who write to you and say, "You just changed my business". Wow, "You just or you just changed my life". I I have one particular person who writes to me and said, "I changed, I saved his life". Wow, because of some stuff that we were doing. And it was a very tough period for him. And I, you know, I some, because a lot of my shows have a lot of motivational pieces in them as well, because of some of the people that I you know, interview. But you know, they're just, they're just very inspirational stories. And I mean, like GE even Gene Simmons, you know, from Kiss, and he was on my very first episode. I, when I was a judge on Celebrity Apprentice, we had to we fired him, you know? And, and so, but we've been, we've become friends and, you know, he almost cried on my show, talking about a story about when he was selling some cactus fruit in Israel before he moved here into the States. And he, he and his friend Jaime, would stop at the bus station, and they would sell this cold cactus fruit as people got off the bus from work. And they were making, you know, obviously sheckles. And they took all their money that day, and they stopped and got themselves in ICE and ICE cone. And then he took the rest of money and gave it to his mother and his mother thought, well, "where'd you get this money?" And, and she and she said, and he said, "Mom, I sold this, I did this". He goes, I got an ice cone. But I this is all for you. Because they they weren't you know, they weren't very, very rich. And, and I, this is what she said to him. She said, "You're my little man". And when he said that he cracked, he cracked. I mean, he was just telling that story. He remembered, that's what and I know Jean loves his mother very much. I don't know that she's still alive. But I knew as a personal friend, he loved his mother. And he told that story and you could you could hear him you know, cracking and crying right there. Yeah. And you know, to me, those are cool. Those are cool. Those are cool moments and I I'm by the way I've had you know other moments where you know, I had Piers Morgan who was with me on Celebrity Apprentice as well and used to be host to CNN, he took over after Larry Larry King and he and I got in an argument over gun control, you know? Cuz I have definite opinions about that, real believer in the Second Amendment and you know, another one that I there was a guy that wrote the I used to have the Twitter account for Overheard In an Goldman Sachs elevator. And he said something about women being tethered goats in the industry. And I threatened to punch him in the throat, but that was another one because he was such an outrageous statement that he would say something like that. I was so mad. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Kap Chatfield 39:42
Well, you're a guy I definitely want on my team if it if it all goes down. So that's
Jeffrey Hayzlett 39:47
Well I appreciate that.
Kap Chatfield 39:48
Yeah. Hey, so we're coming to the end of the episode I want to just ask, I would love for your like, kind of crystal ball if you could, of like, what do you think the future is gonna look like in this world of show marketing, businesses taking storytelling seriously?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 40:04
You got to tell your story and it's gonna get harder than ever to tell it.
Kap Chatfield 40:08
Why's that?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 40:09
Because you it's gonna it's going to be crowded and if you look at the way we're we're consuming media today. It used to be a broadcast moved to narrowcast now to segments of one. So to be found, you're going to have to be noticeable. To be noticeable, we're going through this, what is relevant and what is irrelevant. So each of us looks at it like that. Look at how you do your your email, just for instance, which is a still a sacred way to receive information, sure, you do so by select and deselect. So you put lots of items into the do not block and into the filters, never to be touched. So all of those, even though they're great messages are trying to get through to you and you might need them, you you've selected them out. The same, so everybody's doing that. So what is the way in which you can be discovered in order to convert at a greater rate? And then deepen the relationships with those people so that you win them as customers for life, and then they in turn, go out there and tell others about you. And that's that's what we have to learn that it's been going on for a long time. It's always been that way. Social media now and now certainly with with podcasting and digital media, is creating a better opportunity for us to do that. So that's what you're going to have to do. And if you don't get it, you're going to be lost into oblivion, you're going to be marginalized on the sidelines, and I don't care what business you're in, you could be a real estate, a local real estate, car dealer, you could be anything, you're going to have to be able to figure this game out. And you don't need to be a superstar. You don't need to be Joe Rogan, you don't need to be, you know, you know, Robert Kiyosaki, or you know, or my show or whatever. What you need to do is get to the right people with the right message at the right time. That's it.
Kap Chatfield 42:01
That's it, really, it's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. I love that. Well, Jeff, hey, thanks so much for taking the time just to share so much wisdom and expertise. And, man, you're a blast to chat with. And I hope to have you on the show again in the future. And we'll make sure that people follow you on LinkedIn, we'll put the link for your LinkedIn profile in the show notes as well as C suite Network. Is there anything else that we can point the audience to if they want to get connected with you?
Jeffrey Hayzlett 42:26
Well, just come look for me Hayzlett, H A Y Z L E T T Jeffrey Hayzlett. You can find me on every social media platform or just come to our C suite network. I invite everybody every Friday we we have a celebrations at the end of the day. It's kind of like heading home on the train or stopping by your local pub with a bunch of friends and give them a high five or a pat in the back, if they had a great week or a big hug if they've had a terrible week. And we do that every Friday and we invite everybody to come and check us out and and sit in.
Kap Chatfield 42:54
Cool. Well right on, we'll put the link for C suite there so that people can can follow along. Jeff, thanks again for jumping on the show with us today.
Jeffrey Hayzlett 43:02
My pleasure.
