- Rveal’s website: rveal.media
- Rveal’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rvealmedia/
- Rveal’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC69p14R2ccMdyUbbmdlWCEw
Kap Chatfield 00:20
Hey guys, welcome to B2B Podcasting. Today, our guest is Sam Moss. He's the co founder of One Click Agency. It is a web development company for b2b SaaS companies and tech companies. And he's also the host of a show called B2B Made Simple. Sam, so glad to have you on the show today.
Sam Moss 00:43
Thanks for the pretty awesome intro there, man. It's good to be here.
Kap Chatfield 00:47
Sam, we just got connected just a few weeks ago, we got connected on LinkedIn. And you were actually doing a podcast episode with Chris Walker. We just had him on the show recently. And you guys, the reason why I wanted to reach out to you is because I saw what you guys were talking about. And you guys were just delivering some really interesting content when it comes to b2b marketing, which I think you and I can agree the b2b space is is really desperate for some innovative marketing thinkers. And I would call you one of those those thought leaders, man. So I'm sure you're too modest and too humble to say that about yourself, so I'll just say it for you. I see you as a thought leader in that space. So for anybody listening, who doesn't already know you, doesn't know your show and doesn't know your company, could you explain a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what sets you guys apart as a company?
Sam Moss 01:36
Yeah, so I co-founded One Click Agency with my dad about four or five years ago. And originally, we were a, a do everything agency for whatever businesses needed. And fast forward to today, we realizde that doing SEO campaigns, any type of marketing campaign, social media management, logo design, that was all stuff that like, was cool, but it was a distraction. So we honed into web development, specifically. And then from there, we actually made the shift from working with small businesses, to 100% going into the SAS and tech world. We had, you know, had a couple of those clients under our belt for a while and we decided, hey, now's a good time to make that shift. And we did. And then fast forward to today, we have a team of 13 developed developers under us, working on our projects with us. And we're helping b2b SaaS and tech companies with web development, design and ongoing maintenance. So that's kind of where we are today.
Kap Chatfield 02:38
The first question I want to ask you, this, this really was like an eyebrow raiser for me, is how is it, how's it working with your dad? I mean, co-founding a company with your dad's got to be a really awesome project.
Sam Moss 02:50
It's, it has its ups and downs, but overall, it's a lot of fun. I mean, we're pretty similar. So we're both visionary, I would say he's more of a risk taker than I am. So I'm like, Okay, we need to focus on on a couple things here. And he's like, well I have all these great ideas, right? It's like finding the balance there between what is is going to work and where should we focus. And it was, it was tougher earlier on, I think, but we kind of got our feet under us, after a while and decided, hey, this is what we want to be known for. And this is what we want to continue doing. This is what we're good at. So why not focus on it? I think that's like a key learning that I could go into for hours. For business owners. I know, that's really not who's necessarily listening today. But that's something I learned.
Kap Chatfield 03:36
I actually think it is. Because the people that are listening to this show are typically going to be people who are, you know, either they've already started a show, because they have some sort of shot, excuse me thought leadership angle or point of view, that they want to develop and distribute and scale to, you know, audiences all over. Or it's people who are in that place where they have, like, they're crafting a message, they're crafting a point of view, and they want to learn how to how to, you know, share that message. And if you're just gonna have like a very generic and you know, shotgun approach to your message or to your brand, you're not really going to reach anybody, you're not going to make a big impact. And that goes not just for the content you create, but for the actual business lane that you're in. And so I'd actually love for you to go a little bit deeper into that. What was that process like for you guys to really narrow down not just your service and your product, but also the audience that you served?
Sam Moss 04:33
So at first, like I mentioned, we were doing anything and everything and our mantra was, if if a business owner comes to us and asks us for something, then even if we don't do it, we figure out a way to do it. So whether that's outsourcing it, I mean, we were all over the map. We even developed an app for a company in New York in Albany, New York, like we had no idea what we're doing. And by the skin of our teeth, we made it out of the project, right? No idea what we're doing, but it was like, again, it's work. It's it's money through the door, right? Sure. And that just got crazy because at first it was just my dad and I, and we were doing everything from SEO campaigns, to helping people with social media, website development, that's really time consuming just for those things. And then it's like this plethora of digital marketing, it was everything we could think of. And I quickly realized that we weren't really known for something. My own wife was like, "people ask me what you do, and I can't actually tell them." Oh, my, and that's kind of like an eye opener, right? Sure. You can't just say digital marketing, because people don't really understand, there's so many nuances. So man, so that was that was number one. So we decided to hone in on websites. So we started building them. And again, this was only for small businesses, and a handful of sass companies. So we got really good at it, we decided to continue with that we nixed everything else. And it was like a weight off my shoulders. Knowing I already know about website development, I already know about website design, this is like nothing to me to talk to customers. Before, I would have to fake it till I make it, because again, we can do it. Right? That was our mantra. And after we had gotten through that phase, we decided, you know, within the past year to 100%, pretty much, not stop working with small businesses, because we still have a couple trickle through the door. And we have existing clients, but to focus our our marketing efforts on the SAS world. And that's, you know, when we get to it, that's where our podcast came from. And that's where our LinkedIn strategy came from. And the reason I mean, from a business standpoint, the reason we did that is because Corona really wrecked a lot of small businesses. And it was like pulling teeth before that, to get them to spend money on a website. I mean, they just don't value marketing, like the SAS and tech world does, they don't understand it. And a lot of these people, it was like convincing them they needed a website, let alone actually selling them. And in the SAS world, they already know they need a website, they know they have a redesign, they do it every year. And we just have to be the right company for them. So it was like a mindset shift for us. And that's how we navigated that.
Kap Chatfield 07:09
That's, that's really interesting. Because I totally agree with that observation about, unless you're in it, it's, you know, unless you're doing tech a lot in SAS, for anybody that doesn't know the term, it's it stands for software as a service. So anything that you're you buy that's like an app or a software that has like a monthly subscription to it, that you use as a team, whether it's zoom, or slack or anything really. There's so many different service or products out there. That's what it is. So obviously, they are in the tech space, so they're going to appreciate it at that level. It's interesting, you said that because even with this show, what I've noticed is the show this show is most attractive to people, not just doing a b2b show, but in b2b marketing in general. So it doesn't mean that we won't have people on the show that aren't lawyers doing a legal podcast or an attorney. But the people that are you know, the most it's, it's, it's the easiest to convince, it's like you don't even have to convince they already believe in it, are people in that space because they're already doing it a lot. So I can kind of relate to that. But I want to ask this question about COVID. Because what we saw with COVID is a world and a marketplace that maybe saw digital marketing and tech, as an accessory to business. You know, for some of these, you know, industries that just have had this legacy of more traditional style marketing and things like that, word of mouth. It thrusted everybody into this world of now seeing digital as a necessity, not just a luxury or an accessory to their business. So since then, A would you agree? Am I crazy? And B, How has that affected your business over the past year?
Sam Moss 09:03
No, you're not crazy at all. I definitely agree, especially in the small business world. In the b2b SaaS and tech, that was they were already there. And if you think about it, their budgets weren't tremendously impacted from what we can tell a lot of them, they're venture funded, they're they have so much cash, they can't even they don't know what to do with it. So of course, they're going to go blow it on a website every six months, right? So that doesn't change. Now, with a small business, what we encountered was they didn't value marketing before. And even though they do now, now they're in the middle of COVID, they're strapped for cash, and it's like pulling teeth even worse to convince them. And there were some businesses that took off. And, you know, we've we've done some projects for them within the past year. And that's great. Again, not our ideal client, but because of the industry, they're in, they're a small business. Maybe they were a cleaning company or things like that. But restaurants, really where people are congregating those are the places that got nixed, and even though they might realize that digital marketing is a good thing, their budgets were like nothing, because of what we were going through. So that was one of the key factors in our switch. And it had been a long time coming, just knowing that marketing truly isn't valued in the small business world, at least not yet. And yet has come a long way through COVID. But I still don't think we're there. And again, that's why we made the shift.
Kap Chatfield 10:28
Let me ask you, regarding your specific business, because I'm sure that there's a handful of other web developing firms or agencies out there that are focusing in the b2b company, or b2b SaaS or tech space. What would you say makes you guys different, what sets you apart?
Sam Moss 10:47
Hmm, the number one thing that we say is, we're web developers that understand b2b marketing. So we get what these people actually do, because the people that we sell to are the VPs, and directors of marketing at the SAS company. So we understand their job and we can offer insights when we're working on the build. So when we're developing a website, and we notice that maybe this is a little cluttered over here, or maybe this isn't very clear, at least they have someone in their corner that isn't just talking tech talk and development and coding. And we can actually talk on their level and know, okay, this is where the how the funnel works. This is how your messaging works. This is your go to market strategy. And that just sets us apart. Because it's like, again, you have the developer in your corner for the entire project.
Kap Chatfield 11:33
What would you say what the CMOs, the marketing directors of these companies, what would you say keeps them up at night the most regarding the success of the company?
Sam Moss 11:44
I would say pipeline and revenue. I would think, I think that's what it should be. For some its leads and I think that that is, that's not how I'm, I would not be aligned with that. But I think pipeline and revenue is probably what mostly keeps them up at night, if you have to ask me.
Kap Chatfield 12:00
Sounds like you've been talking to Chris Walker, you guys are definitely cut from the same cloth.
Sam Moss 12:04
I mean, it makes sense. It's yeah, totally makes sense. I mean, as a business owner, I get it, because that's something he says is marketers, you need to learn business principles, you need to know how to read a p&l, you need to know you need to talk to customers. Things that people that run a company already do. And I think that's why I have somewhat of a leg up because I have my foot in the business world and the marketing world. So I understand both, similar to where Chris Walker is coming from, because I can get all the leads I want, a marketer can get all the leads they want. And for me leads mean nothing as a co founder, right? Sure, it can turn into nothing. A marketer, sometimes they're just passing on the sales, if they turn into something, they don't care. Right? But from a business standpoint, I think that I definitely have a different viewpoint on how that all works.
Kap Chatfield 12:49
That's true, a lead doesn't mean anything until they submit their credit card information, or they sign the cheque that's and,
Sam Moss 12:56
That's, way after the marketer has done their job. And that's why I think it's, it's, I am very happy with the opportunity that I have to be in both worlds.
Kap Chatfield 13:07
Would you say that your show B2B Made Simple was birthed from that? Like trying to trying to market your business? Or why did you start your show B2B Made Simple?
Sam Moss 13:18
It was it was that. So originally, we had a show called Small Business Made Simple. And it was a content strategy to get to our ideal customers. So we would bring on subject matter experts to talk about business to teach people what they've learned, maybe some of their pitfalls along the way. And then that created demand for us and exposure for us and a brand for us that associated, "Okay, Sam has this really good show about this, I've learned a ton. Now I know who Sam is and I know his company". So that was the strategy. And then when we shifted who our ideal customer was, we just took the show with it. So we simply moved a couple words in the name and made it a Marketing podcast. And I went back and forth on should we start a new show, or just continue episodes and do a complete rebrand? And I settled with keeping the two shows just changing the name simply because if marketers did go back, they'd be learning business principles, which I don't think is going to harm them. So it's kind of a win win for them. And from there on out, though, we are 100%, SAS and tech marketing. You know, we have VPs and directors of marketing and we're just creating content for our ideal customers, from peers in the industry, and subject matter experts. So that's our strategy behind it.
Kap Chatfield 14:37
I love that. I think that, to boil that down, boil that down to summarize what you just said, I think it's really important for somebody who's in that place of you know whether someone has never started a show before and they're concerned about well, if I start the show, and it's not in the perfect direction and the message isn't perfect and the audience isn't perfect and all of the branding is not perfect. Am I gonna have to start a completely new show? What do I do? Or maybe someone's in that place right now where they're seeing their business morph into something new. They're they're outgrowing who they used to be. And with that they're outgrowing their previous content creation model, especially if they were doing a show that was related to that, that specific audience. What you just said, I think, is really freeing for people because there's a way to tastefully make that transition from one core audience to the next. It sounds like for you, it really wasn't that much of a stretch, because it's, you know, it's still your expertise, you might be bringing on different guests now. And you have a slightly different or refined audience in mind, but it's still it's still natural to who you are. So it sounds like that was an easy transition. And I hope that encourages somebody so that they don't feel like oh, man, I have to get it perfectly right the first time. In fact, what would you say to somebody who's at that place of, they're hesitant, because they want to make sure that everything is perfect and polished before they begin?
Sam Moss 16:03
So a couple of things, one, nothing will ever be perfect. So you may as well stop striving for it now. There have been things that we've refined on our show, we have, we started with an intro, and then we had an outro and an ad in the middle. And then if you listen to some episodes, eventually the ad was gone. Eventually, the outro was gone, it was just music. Eventually it was a shortened intro. And we're just continually refining what we have. On top of that our process has changed a ton from how we outreach to the guests, to how we bring them on the show, to how we interact with them after. All of that has been refined and changed over the time. So don't be worried about if it's going to be perfect. And then another point, I'm not the first one that's really messed up or not messed up, but had to change a show like this and had a different audience. I personally know someone that was 1000, maybe not 1000, but two or three years into a podcast. And they realized they were talking to salespeople when they needed to be talking to marketers. And it's a very similar show to what I have. They're going after the same audience and they realize that and they made the shift, they can they left up the old content, which is fine. But I'm not the only one. And if there's someone listening, you're probably not the only one either.
Kap Chatfield 17:15
That is so. that's okay first of all, I think something that people need to think about too is if you're in if you're a business leader, if you're an entrepreneur, and you've just you've been developing a business, you already know that evolution is part of the game. You're not going to have the perfect business that can withhold or withstand, you know, a crazy pipeline and 100 employees. You're not going to come up with that day one, unless you've done it X amount of times before. So it's you know, we got to get, there's something there's a phrase that I heard, I forget, I forget what the exact verbiage is. So I'm going to butcher it. But basically, it's I want to begin, I want to be a beginner at something always in my life. Like I want to, I want to, I want that tension of not being an expert at everything that I do. Because when you when you put yourself in that place of being a beginner and just starting it keeps you humble, but also keeps you creative and innovative. And and I think sometimes when you have everything you think I think that's also the thing is, you have the illusion of having everything polished and perfect, you don't embrace change, and pivot when it's necessary to pivot like you guys did. You recognized, in order for us to continue to use this, I don't want to take the words out of your mouth, but to perhaps use this as like the nucleus of our marketing model. If we're gonna, if that's still going to be a major component of our marketing strategy, we got to pivot this.
Sam Moss 18:37
Yeah, and it had worked before with the small business world, not only with our listeners, but with the relationships that I had created with our guests. Quite a few of them reached out for website work. And I knew I wanted to take that strategy into the b2b world while we already in the b2b, the SaaS and tech world with the marketing podcast. I knew it worked so we made the shift on a dime. We realized that we wanted to move into that industry, in that space. And within one month, we were completely transferred over. And we had run. So we had a bunch of episodes actually in the can for the small business one. And we just ran them every single day, like we had probably three months worth of episodes, you know, on a weekly basis, and we pumped them out in the month, just to get them out and not waste the content. And then we shifted the show, and we were just thrilled and excited about the new chapter. And we just went for it.
Kap Chatfield 19:32
That's awesome, man. I love it. We're actually doing something similar as you know, as people are listening to this, we have gone through a rebrand and our new launch for this show. But we kind of had to do the same thing, too. We had so many amazing guests on episodes before. We're like we can't, we got to honor them. We got to put the content out there. It's great content, but we got to, you know, we got to kind of get it out there at a quicker cadence than we were doing before. And so yeah, I think it's a great strategy. Now question, when you are, when you were first thinking about doing this show, what was like the most important thing for you to think about? And what would you recommend if someone's thinking about starting a show? What's like, if you're gonna get one thing, right, and really focus your energy on getting one thing, right, what would that one thing be?
Sam Moss 20:19
It would be a combination of who you have on on your show, and then the content you're delivering. So when it comes to who you have on your show, I would not chase massive thought leaders at first. I would go at most with some micro influencers, I would not consider myself like a massive voice on LinkedIn. Do I have a voice and an audience? Yes. So someone like me would be be good, you know? I'll most likely say yes to the show, I'm not on 50 a week. So I'm excited about it. Right? I think the issue that or the problem that that people run into, and it's a trap is "I want to get the biggest name on my podcast and I'm going to get a ton of listeners". And you might get a bunch of listeners for that show, because of the name that they bring, but they're probably not going to stick with it much further than that, the audience. And also, the other person, the person that you have on the show, if they're a big name, they're probably not going to help you distribute the content and be excited about it, like a smaller name guest would be. Simply because you're the fifth or six podcasts they've been on that day. So I'm thinking like the Gary V's of the world, right? Sure, it'd be tough to get him on a show, but that's a really high level example. When it comes to the content, it needs to be something that's valuable and engaging. A name isn't going to bring that, right? So also keep in mind that you're trying to build an audience because that will fuel demand for your business, if you're offering educational or valuable content to to your ideal buyers. And originally, I'd made the mistake of like the relationship is all that matters with a guest. I need to make sure that you know down the road, they reach out to us and I have since kind of backed up and been like, Okay, this also needs to deliver for the audience. And this isn't solely about the person I'm talking to over zoom. So I think that's an important as well, because you want to be able to redistribute the content. You want people to come back to the show and find it valuable. So I've been very intentional about making sure the content would be something that a VP or director or director level or even CMO level marketer would want to consume. So that's something I think about as well. And I think a lot of people are either 100% sold out on the content and don't consider the guest, or they're 100% sold out on who the guest is and they kind of punt the content. And there needs to be a marriage of the two for sure.
Kap Chatfield 22:44
So you're clearly thinking through not just an audience that you'd be interested in, you know, having conversation with after a podcast episode or grabbing a beer with or going, you know, playing basketball with or whatever, whatever recreational thing you'd want to do. Like you're you're thinking about, and that's not to say that you wouldn't do that with your audience anyway. But what it sounds like you're saying is your audience, how you would like create the profile of your audience is really around who you would want to do business with? Or who would most, who would most likely want to, to end up you know, buying your services as a company. And I know that you're not saying that you're just looking to get a sale out of every audience member. But at the end of the day, you're not creating the show just to like, feel good about yourself. You're doing this as a as a vehicle to bring value to the market, but generate an audience, build an audience that is that could be a pipeline for your business. Is that correct?
Sam Moss 23:45
Yeah, there's, there's three points to it. The first one is, I wanted the relationship with a guest. The second is I want to deliver really, really good content from subject matter experts, to my ideal buyers, so that they will remember my brand when the time comes. And then the third thing is, I just forgot it. So we'll just it was really good too.
Kap Chatfield 24:08
Oh, I can't wait to hear it. stuff down. What a yeah, what a cliffhanger. If it comes back, don't be afraid to interrupt, because I do. In fact, listen to the end of the episode, guys, if you want to hear that third point, it's gonna come back at the end somehow. So I used the phrase earlier, I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to put words in your mouth. But it's something that we say a lot and it's, I can just I understand that B2B Made Simple is a really important part of your marketing strategy. One thing that we say is our show and we believe, a podcast, particularly a video podcast, it could possibly be the nucleus of all of your entire marketing strategy because it's such a content machine. So my question to you is, how do you guys personally leverage your show across multiple channels to reach and build this audience?
Sam Moss 25:01
So we're pretty intentional about knowing where our customers are. And right now they are engaging with content on LinkedIn primarily. So that is our main platform for organic reach. So we chop up video, we create graphics, and depending on the guest, if it's like a listicle kind of episode, we'll create a slide deck with the points. And then we distribute it through my page and our company page. For the the connections that I built in the audience that I built, and some hit and resonate, resonate well, and then some don't. And I think that one of the areas that companies miss in distribution is yes, they can distribute it well, and maybe tell people about the podcast, but they don't, they overthink it and then they don't actually make a trail or a way for someone to get back to the podcast. For example, I see a company on LinkedIn all the time. They have their podcasts, and they're all happy about it, right? They put these videos out. The videos, say nothing about the podcast, it's just a clip from the podcast, right? The videos don't even, so the videos don't say it, the content doesn't say anything about the podcasts. Like, "Hey, by the way, this was from our show". I don't even know the name of the show. Oh, they have not mentioned it there. It's not branded anywhere. It's not in the comment section. I even went to their website and it's in the footer. There wasn't even anything in the menu, nothing on the homepage. So it's almost like they didn't want people to find the podcast. And then on top of that, it's not even on Spotify or iTunes. Oh, so. Right? And it's like, oh, cool. You, we have a podcast. But there are some fundamental things that that seem like they are easy, and simple to understand and execute. But seriously, like, just make it easy, overly easy for people to find your show through your content.
Kap Chatfield 27:01
I feel like that's almost a not a no brainer. So I'm kind of, you know sad for whoever that is, like oh, no. Because then it almost just looks like a recorded zoom call, which there's nothing wrong.
Sam Moss 27:10
It is like, that's literally what it looks like. Yeah.
Kap Chatfield 27:13
Oh, that's, that's tragic. Well, you guys are doing it great, by the way. I love the branding. If you guys haven't seen, first of all, if you're listening now, make sure you go listen to some episodes of B2B Made Simple, it's great content. The guests, the guests, and the conversations are really spectacular. And then the micro content, it's so professionally done. You guys are just really doing a good job with that. So keep it up. Next question that I have regarding the show is how do you guys, how do you how do you guys decide or sift through, what's your process for inviting guests onto the show?
Sam Moss 27:51
Right now we do it through LinkedIn DM. So we have some message templates that are very short and sweet. For example, it's something along the lines, the first one is something along the lines of, "hey, we're doing a series on b2b marketing on our podcast, would you be interested?" And it's literally like two lines. Hey, name, line, and then would you be interested? And I don't know the percentage of people that respond, but it's really high. I don't know why marketers just don't seem to get invited on a lot of podcasts, which is kind of surprising. I think it's starting to pick up. But they're excited because it's it's what they're passionate about. So of course, they're going to share it and want to be on the show. And then of course there are people that are just like, you know, it's not really fit, not really my thing. Or if you tried to reach out to a bigger name, they just, they might be too busy. I've had that happen a few times. But the majority of the time, you might be surprised, if you haven't done outreach like this before. Just simply sending not a book in the DMs, but a simple kind of intrigue. You don't even have to put the link to the show at first. But just to spark the interest and get the conversation going. You'd be surprised how many people will be like, "Yeah, sure". I've heard, and I'm not the only one, there are so many people that have encountered this and experienced like the ease and the availability for your from guests to be on the show.
Kap Chatfield 29:14
Okay, I need to ask, are we, I'm gonna like create a new segment in the show starting today called like, like, "tactical two minutes". So like, we need a we're gonna take a tactical two right now. I need a very tactical tip from you, regarding the LinkedIn DMS because I'm actually like, legit about to start setting a timer for myself every week where I will put out a, the same post every week and the post will go something like this. Today is August 26, 2021. And in this is your reminder to not use sponsored LinkedIn DMS to sell your product because yeah, I get that so much. And I know that people who are listening who are active on LinkedIn, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And I don't know how many people I've ended up connecting with from like India and some random Asian countries. I have no problem with India. But it's like, it just is. Yeah, it's like you just noticed, like, all of these people are they're in your inbox and the first thing that they ask is like, "Hey, do you need a virtual assistant?" Or do you need this and it's like, A, it's, it actually makes me kind of numb to the DMS on LinkedIn, which is so unfortunate, because that can be such a valuable place to actually build meaningful relationships. So my question to you is, for this tactical two, two minutes, how, how would you, what advice would you give to somebody who wants to go deeper on LinkedIn, start using DMS, but how do they make their their, those messages, not white noise to whoever they're sending it to?
Sam Moss 30:55
I would, I would say, don't send DMS unless it's something valuable. Again, this is going to be so subjective, but valuable to them. And by valuable, I simply only mean inviting them on your podcast. Because I don't listen to any other DMS, I got yours. I think it's through LinkedIn. Because I like being shows. I will, I will respond to that, and 99% of other people that you're going to have on your podcasts are going to be the same way. So by standing out, it's a simple quick message like, Hey, would you be interested in being on our podcast? Not a three paragraph explanation of why your shows around, why they should be on the show. Just pique the interest more than anything. And then on top of that, don't be sending DMS before this, that kind of discredit your name. Like trying to get them on a sales call and do all this, and here's the link to our demo or a recent case study or blog post. That's just going to disqualify you right off the right out of the gate. So I don't do that. I mean, literally, the only DMS, obviously, there's some exceptions, but pretty much the only DMS I send are, "hey do you want to be on our podcast?" and then a couple of simple follow up message messages after that. And I think it's mostly because I'm credible in the way that I haven't spammed their inbox before and they give me a chance. I think people are pretty open to giving people at least a chance. And they're excited to be on a show. So nine times out of 10 they'll respond.
Kap Chatfield 32:21
It reminds me of the philosophy that Gary Vee, I'm sure you've I'm sure you're very well familiar with Gary Vee. But his philosophy about jab, jab hook, and the philosophy. He wrote a book called Jab, Jab Hook. But basically, it's like, give, give, give, and then ask, right? Like it's, it's about leading with value, and that's to your point, when inviting somebody onto your show does is, sure you get value out of them coming on your show and sharing what they have to share with your audience. But then, obviously, you're probably going to share that content with them for them to repurpose. So they get to be positioned in front of a new audience, they get to repurpose that content themselves. I mean, who doesn't want to be kind of enamored as, as a thought leader in their industry? So there's a huge opportunity there. I love that approach. And I'll also just share this, something that I'll probably test out more, but I think another valuable way to, to make that ask is not just in the DMS, but in the comments on people's posts on LinkedIn. Because psychologically, I think we know, you're not gonna, like, no one's gonna do a sponsored ad into a comment on a post, that feature doesn't exist. So like, I'm when I see like a little red dot at the messages tab at the top of my LinkedIn, you know, portal or whatever. The thought kind of goes through my head, like, am I going to be disappointed when I click this? And then I click it and just you're kind of expecting to have that sort of thing pop up. But in comments, it's, it's not it's not like that. So and what you can, what also happens is, when you do that, when you put it in the comments, it's actually public. So now the person who presented you know, an idea or a thought or a piece of content, and you respond and say, "Hey, I found this content really valuable. I'd love to have you on my show." Now, you're basically courting them in front of their entire, you know, network. So it looks really good for them to be able to be like, "Yeah, I'd love to be on your show". Right? So not obviously, it's not about being sleazy and not about being you know, in disingenuous, it's, you know, I think motivations always critical, like, check your heart, make sure that you're doing it with the right motive in mind, but, but I think you're right, man, like we're all we all want to grow together. So don't be afraid to ask, and it's gonna help. So I want to make a transition. We're almost running out of time. I want to be sensitive to the time that you have today. You've been so generous and sharing it with us. But I want to get a little bit more. What's the word? Not tactical, but I just want to understand more of like the business development results of your show. So obviously, you know, you don't need to disclose anything that's confidential or sensitive information about current clients you have, but just generally speaking, have you seen that this show that you're doing, B2B Made Simple, has it contributed to the growth of your business? And how have you been able to measure that?
Sam Moss 35:15
For me, as much as I love numbers, the qualitative data that we get from our show is equally as important. An example of that is when I have a VP of marketing that I look up to on our show, and they say, "Dude, I've been listening to your show, it's become the best. It's my, it's my weekend, routine now, or I've been listening to every single morning. And I love the stuff." That's great, that right there is the data that I need to know. Wow we are in this person's ears, every single week, maybe every single day. And they're our ideal buyer. And here we are having them on the show, not even to sell them, but to like present educational content to our listeners, and they're already a listener. Like that's huge to me. And we're, it's starting to snowball actually. We're getting it more and more. And it takes some time, obviously, to get that recognition. But it's starting to happen. So I know that at least the content is moving in the right direction. People are starting to, yeah, the micro content that we distribute, are getting eyeballs and engagements from ideal buyers. That's another qualitative piece of data. And again, you can't trace everything back and be like, "Oh, this lead was attributed to this piece of content", like that'd be pointless. Just know, at a high level that A leads to B, and when this person reaches out, you know, why it's it, why it's happening. And this isn't necessarily because of the podcast, but a sliver I guess or a portion of the podcast. I like to ask, I actually got this from Chris Walker, it was when I'm on a call with an inbound lead. It's, hey, one of the first questions I ask is, "How many of our videos or posts on LinkedIn does it take? Did it take before you felt comfortable enough to reach out to us?" And the most recent person I was talking to said, 20. So what's that, like? I do about five posts a week. So that was four weeks, they had been lurking in the background, not really engaging, but had been seeing our content that is really fed and fueled from our podcast. So I guess you can say it's the podcast. And they reached out because they felt comfortable and they felt like they knew me. So like, yes, it's tough to attribute like, we had this many guests on the show. And this many people reached out for a website. It's way more high level than that. And I know it's working. I know, it's snowballing. Now, an example, when we had the Small Business Show, we had a number of guests actually reached out, I would, I would say, upwards of 50% of the guests that we had on the show within six to eight months reached out in a discovery process. Not all of them did business by any means. But they knew who they wanted to go to. And I know that's going to happen. And it has already started happening with the guests that we've had on our show. But that isn't necessarily the focus, and we don't sell to them. We don't really try to say our name at all, because I hate like the sleazy like, hey, we have you on our show, you have 10 minutes, we're gonna go like to tell you what we do. Like, I wouldn't want that to happen to me. And I know they wouldn't want it to happen to them. So it's more of a long game. They're going to remember us for the the the favor that we did them and the relationship that we're going to continue to cultivate.
Kap Chatfield 38:28
Yeah, it's that just feels so desperate. Like, just, and at the same time, I have a lot of compassion and empathy for people in that in that space. Because as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, like I get it. Like, you know, when you're just getting stuff now, yeah, and you know, you're just building momentum. It's like, we got to, we got, we got to make payroll, we got people to feed, we got to build this business. So I get it, but it's like the encouragement there is commit to the long game, it will pay off, it will pay off. And I love dude, I just, I love what you just shared about the qualitative data. Because and I know, you know, you and Chris Walker, and so many so many marketers that maybe feel the frustration of like, man, like, I know what we do is amazing. I know we produce amazing work. I know it not because I like just think it. I know because I've gotten the feedback. I know it like, I'm sure you've been in a position where you show like the reveal of of the website to a client, and they're just their breath is taken away and they're just like, "This is amazing". And for you. It's like, dude, I don't need a spreadsheet with a ton of numbers. That's why I do what I do. Because I want more moments like that. And I think like because that becomes, we you know, we know that there's no greater there's no greater what's the word? Method or a channel for someone to come and interact with your business then word of mouth, right? Like, there's no greater marketing, I should say than word of mouth. When when somebody tells you like, "dude, you got to go check them out, they're the real deal". Like, you know that it's gonna take that person from like, you know, zero to 70%, of going and seeing what that thing's about. And, and, and that's the sort of feedback that you're talking about when they're willing to share that with you and say, "Hey, I just need you to know what you guys did, like that episode was great. And I still think about it, or I'm listening to an episode a day, or I'm listening to it on the weekend." It's, it's so important, because you can't measure it. It's not like it's not as clean cut as an impression or, or an email lead. But you know, for a fact like, that's our target audience, that it resonated with them. And then the question goes, in your mind, I wonder how many people that individual represents, right? So,
Sam Moss 40:54
You never know who they're talking to. That's something that will snowball. You get your core group of listeners, and then it can it can really take off from there.
Kap Chatfield 41:03
Do you guys track that at all? I don't mean to put you on the spot, but we are having a candid conversation. So I'm just curious if that's something,
Sam Moss 41:10
Yes, I mean, through I am, I'm pretty obsessed with numbers, even though I love qualitative data. And one word of caution is I would not get tripped up by the analytics, when you have two listens to your show. When you get three engagements on your post, or less on LinkedIn to start out. Like, there are other things to worry about and you have to start somewhere. And your show, what I like to look at, is the month to month growth. And sometimes it will dip and sometimes it will go up. Because if you're looking at the daily, it's really easy to get distracted and obsessed with how many I get downloads did I get today? Or how many subscribers do we have? And take a step back, check it every month or so and see where the growth is. Even if it's a two to 5% growth month over month, you're growing, like you're getting an audience and that will start to pile on itself. So don't obsess with it. If you're new to this, and even if you you've been around for a while doing it, like the numbers aren't necessarily everything. They're fun to track, and I do enjoy getting in there and seeing what's going on. But take a breath and know it's gonna be okay if you just continue to distribute your content well and deliver value.
Kap Chatfield 42:21
It's also interesting to think about, like, let's say you only had three listeners. What if those three listeners were, they were people who fit your ICP, your ideal customer profile? If those three people were the right audience, you're in a good position, like just keep 'em listening. And I love the idea of, you know, not being, not not being like to the big numbers, all that stuff is glamorous, and it can be helpful, it oftentimes it is helpful, but it can be discouraging too from from stuff that really does make a difference. I'll just share a quick story. But we have a client of ours that we've been doing a show for. They're called Skillwork. They're a skilled labor staffing agency that connects skilled workers with companies that are looking for skilled workers across the country. And what we discovered for them was we needed to help them overcome an obstacle where they were seen kind of like a temp agency. And temp agencies have like a bad stigma of not getting you quality workers the first time. When these guys they have a process that gets you the right, the right worker the first time like 85% success rate, which is remarkably high. Because otherwise it would be like 15 or lower. So we're doing the show with them. And you know, as far as like, especially with like, I don't know about you, but as a marketer, I pay attention to marketing a lot. So I see like Facebook ads and Instagram ads and all that stuff and just YouTube ads to just bombard me. And on all of these gurus, quote unquote, just lead with like these big metrics. And it's like, oh my gosh. Like, over time, it just kind of makes you like, "oh, dude, I'm not seeing metrics like this guy". And he's like twelve. You know? It's like, so is that even realistic? Well, you know, sort of same thing with our client. Where like, you know, it's still good. Like it's growing and all that, but it's like, it's definitely not what I'm seeing in these YouTube ads. But what's interesting is when the client calls me or shoots me an email and says, "Hey, I just want you to know, that we got on the phone with a high ticket client, the clients client or a high ticket prospect". And they told us that they've been watching our content from afar for months, and they've been really enjoying it. They never liked the content. They never liked a micro video, they never engaged it, or left a comment on it. I don't think they even subscribe to the thing on YouTube or whatever. But they were watching and they were paying attention. And then that's when they say best. It's amazing. It's just like, it's so encouraging because you know that that one lead for them could be like, hundreds of 1000s of dollars if they play their card, right. So it's, it's it's like like trusting the process and remembering why, why you're doing it. And it's ultimately to serve an audience and to build a network. So, man, Sam, you're obviously doing something right. I guess, as we close this out, before we give you an opportunity to invite people to, you know, find out more about your show and what you're doing. Is there any last piece of feedback that you'd give somebody, if they're in that place where they're thinking of starting a podcast, particularly a video podcast, in order to kind of be the nucleus of their marketing strategy?
Sam Moss 45:34
Well, I remembered what I was going to say before, I wrote it down. I wrote it down.
Kap Chatfield 45:41
Oh, way to come in at at the clutch. That's so great.
Sam Moss 45:44
So the strategy right, behind our podcast was to connect with our ideal buyers on a personal level through the podcast, eventually, they'll remember us, maybe buy from us. Will it happen? Probably not. But who knows, right? And then to create value for our audience. That's where the money is right? Distribut to LinkedIn. The third thing this is what I forgot before, was when we moved from the small business world into the b2b marketing world, I knew nothing about our customers. And I knew I knew some things about marketing. But I didn't understand SaaS, and tech marketing. I didn't understand the lingo. I didn't understand what was exciting to them. If they were to talk to me in conversation, it would have went right over my head. And that was one of the key reasons that we started our show was to immerse myself in what our customers are passionate about. Wow, so now, it's been eight months, since we, or even nine months since we started our show. The b2b side of things, and I feel very, very fluent in b2b marketing. Am I a pro? Not by any means. But I can hold a conversation and because I've interviewed, whatever, 50, 60 guests, 70 guests, like, I know what's up and I know what, what they talk about, what is important to them, what their lingo is, and the industry language. And I can I feel like that was something that has been achieved and was a major goal in the beginning.
Kap Chatfield 47:10
That's awesome. Yes, I, I love that. Leveraging the show, not to just be a broadcaster, but to also learn. To use it as an opportunity to, to grow yourself. So that's so good, man. Sam, this has been just such a rich time, thank you for taking time out of your day to, to join us on this show, and to share your own thought leadership. To share some of the marketing strategy of your podcast. Again, that show is B2B Made Simple. I'm sure you can find it pretty much anywhere. I know it's on Spotify. That's where I listen to
Sam Moss 47:41
We try to make it really easy to find that. So everywhere. Yeah, if you find me or find our website, you'll be able to find it really easily. So,
Kap Chatfield 47:51
And someone can just find you on LinkedIn and follow you there as well. Correct?
Sam Moss 47:54
Yeah, yeah. I'd be happy to connect with you on LinkedIn.
Kap Chatfield 47:57
Cool. And if you're in that place, I'm going to promote you for you because you didn't ask me to do this. I'm just gonna do it for you. If you're in that place where you're like, hey, we're doing a SaaS product. We're, we're in the tech space. We want a website. We want it done right. I'm telling you, as a marketer, this one thing that frustrates me more than anything is seeing clients invest half like a halfway amount of money the first time to just have to do that whole thing again, because it wasn't it wasn't right the first time. Sam's company, they do great work, make sure you check them out, talk to somebody I'm sure they could educate educate you more on their product. But I'm sure you won't be disappointed. So, Sam, dude, thanks again for joining us, man. It was a blast.
Sam Moss 48:40
Thanks so much, man. I appreciate you having me here. This was a ton of fun. I love talking about marketing and podcasting. So this was right up my alley.
Kap Chatfield 48:48