How to make B2B sales and marketing more human with a B2B podcast - with Steven Schmidt

Too many sales cycles are robotic, impersonal and cold cold face
It seems that now, more than ever, we desire true, personal relationships… especially when it comes to sales. Communication that builds trust and lasting business relationships, benefitting both parties and building connections that last. handshake 
In this episode, Kap interviews Steven Schmidt, CEO of TIDAL and a sales mastermind. They discuss what successful sales looks like, how Steve took his company from $0 to $100 in 90 days in 2020. Their conversation will inspire and challenge you as you walk your own sales journey in this ever-changing business world.  
right arrow If you’re in sales, or simply desire true relationships in the business world, this episode will speak to you. Check it out! 


Main Takeaways:
gem stone Sales can be Aggressive but full of tact 
gem stone Daily Routine and strategy will create positive sales cycles 
gem stone The Human element in sales is what people crave 
gem stone Trust in humans, not systems, is what builds a positive reputation
gem stone Algorithms will expire and people will desire true human interaction
alarm clock 00:00-5:11 | Aggressive Approach to Sales 
alarm clock 5:11-9:51 | How to look for the Sales “Sweet spot”
alarm clock 9:51-14:17 | Going from $0 to $100 million in 90 days
alarm clock 14:17-17:53 | Trust plays a vital role in the Sales Process
alarm clock 17:53-20:55 | Human Instinct in the sales process 
alarm clock 20:55-23:51 | The Insanely Curious bring the Human Element
alarm clock 24:25-30:50 | Sales Cycles and Conversations Initiated by Instinct
alarm clock 30:50-39:08 | Role play Sales Call & Thoughts on the Interactions
alarm clock 39:08-44:51 | A podcast that digs into people’s stories and the human element
alarm clock 44:51-50:40 | Algorithms are out, Human Instinct and interaction is In
speech balloon Trust is really the greatest currency that you can have with people in order to do business with them.” - Kap Chatfield
speech balloon Trust is everything in the buying process. “ - Steven Schmidt
speech balloon The human instinct that is in all of us is way more effective than just relying on data.” - Kap Chatfield
speech balloon The only way to get better is to get human about it, which means go have conversations and find out who's willing to listen. - Steven Schmidt
speech balloon The hardest part about being a founder is that there is going to be days where your team just doesn’t get it. But that's your problem, not theirs. Because to take that knowledge out of my head is my responsibility.” - Steven Schmidt
speech balloon Keep this in mind: winners and losers in business and in life are made by simple decisions.” - Steven Schmidt
speech balloon You and I do not have the power or the influence to change anybody's mind. We have the ability to give them the confidence that they're going to make the right decision.” - Steven Schmidt
speech balloonTo be consistent and a little bit non-exciting is the way to win today in terms of execution.” - Steven Schmidt
speech balloon Algorithms will be out in two years, maybe five years, although everybody's invested in them. Everybody's gonna say I want more human. ” - Steven Schmidt
speech balloon You’ve got to be willing to do the hard things and connect with people. And in relationships: they're eternal. And if you do relationships, right, it's going to help your business.” - Kap Chatfield
Connect with Steven Schmidt
Follow Steven on LinkedIn
Reach out to Rveal:


210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_How to make B2B sales and marketing more human with a B2B podcast - Steven Schmidt_QG1


Full Transcription

Kap Chatfield  00:20

Hey guys, welcome back to B2B Podcasting. I'm your host, Kap Chatfield the CEO of Rveal Media. And I'm so pumped that we finally got this to happen, it took a little bit of rescheduling here and there to get both of our schedules to line up. But I know that you're gonna be so impacted by our guest today, he's not just somebody that I've connected with on LinkedIn, but he's actually truly become a really good friend of mine. Out in the Midwest, his name is Steven Schmidt. He's the founder and CEO at TIDAL. And their expertise is really helping business owners create outbound demand generation solutions, so that they can continue to grow their businesses. Their company has some pretty amazing track records, there's a case study, that's pretty remarkable. They took another company from zero to over $100 million dollars in 90 days, we're going to talk about that case study a little bit. He's also the host of the Rise Podcast. And I would like to coin him as a serial content creator on LinkedIn, that's actually how we first got connected with through his content. So without further ado, Steven, I'm so glad to have you on the show today. Thanks for joining us,


Steven Schmidt  01:23

Oh, Kap, you're such a good dude, man. Thank you, it's, you know, we had a nice little session beforehand. So I always enjoy our time doing this, or pardon me, just chatting about your new beautiful baby, and our kids and the stuff that really life is all about, right?


Kap Chatfield  01:38

Absolutely. And that's something that we're gonna be talking about a little bit is how to create that human connection in an ever-evolving digital world, where it feels like we might be growing more distant from each other. I think we are testing a testimony to how you can develop a real genuine relationships, even through a digital platform. So I'm grateful for it. And we'll talk more about kind of our rendezvous, perhaps later in this episode, but I want to, I want to give the audience a little bit more context into who you are. Because since I've been, you know, been blessed with the opportunity to get to know you, I've discovered that you are a sales mastermind. You have set, you have such an expertise and how to do sales in a way that's genuine, that's authentic, but but it's also, dare I say aggressive, and maybe aggressive is not the best word because it doesn't come off like cold. It really, you have such a tact about how you do it, but you're a go-getter, maybe that's a better word. And I understand even you have a pretty, pretty regimented sales schedule, about how you reach out to people. So but I don't want to speak on your behalf in that regard. Please explain to us how how do you approach sales? And how does your company approach outbound demand generation?


Steven Schmidt  02:56

I love this question. And aggressive is is a good word for it Kap so thank you. I think it's like, if you if you think of persistence in our children at home, and how when they really want something, like you usually hear they really want it the third time or the fourth. But the first time I'm like, "Yeah, that sounds good. I, you know, let's think about that". And the fourth time, they're like, "I really, really want this" and then you're like, Okay, why do you want it right? And so I think back to when I was a kid, when, you know, like a lot of people I grew up s single mom and I we didn't have a lot so I didn't ask for a lot because I felt like it wasn't gonna get it anyways, which is fine. We had a we had a fine life. But sales is interesting, because I use the word persistent, sometimes forcing the conversation. And I think where you and I have had some really interesting narrative narrative is is this whole sales versus marketing and there's a lot of press around and hype. hype cycle. Now there are a company that's whole thing is sales versus marketing, right? How do you take the two and, and let them coexist together. And I feel like marketing is going to get the message there. But outbound is going to force the conversation, meaning if you've been thinking about it, and if I hit you at the right time, or if I'm sustainable in my rhythm with you, that's marketing, right? So outbound is going to hit you to go Yeah, not now. Maybe later. Or maybe I want to learn more Jeez, if you're lucky, you hit me at exactly the right time in the budget cycle, I've got a problem. That's like winning the lottery. Right. marketing's there all the time, providing the backdrop, and then they all end up with the same thing when someone's ready to make a decision. That's when they'll make a decision. I cannot force you to, just like I cannot force my kids to clean up the floors, that I can act like, hey, clean your clothes up off the floor, they still have to go do it. Otherwise, I'm going to do it for them and I'll be frustrated. So I bring it back to simple communication, which is if you're going to say no, I'm not interested. There's not a lot I can do to change your mind. If you're willing to have a conversation and cap you mentioned that is theirs. online dating has been a thing for 20 years now, people are getting happily married by meeting each other online. So why can't we professionally meet each other online and still have a happy ever after.


Kap Chatfield  05:14

And happily ever after, I think meeting each other online, we'll start with that. I want to share the story while while we're on that topic, because I think we our relationship is such a testament to the power of that you made a post a little while ago, I honestly can't even remember what the post was about. But there I was so drawn to it, it was so helpful. That's the key word there, it was helpful to me, and to my business. It took me to your website, I clicked first I liked the post, I went to your LinkedIn profile, I went to your business's LinkedIn page, I went to your website, or read the case study that we'll talk about shortly. I saw your email there. And then that's when I reached out to you. And I felt like man, I this is a guy I want to get to know this is a guy I just I would love to have him on my team one day, whether whether we're working together, he just seems like he just knows what he's talking about. And that that all started that relationship where By the way, just for the the the audience's context here, you live in South Dakota, I live in Omaha, Nebraska, three hours away, I was so impacted by your your posts, talk about demand generation, I was so impacted by your single LinkedIn post, that I drove three hours to grab lunch with you in South Dakota to get to know you. And so so you guys, clearly what you're doing as the leader of your organization, it's working for you. And I can imagine that that that philosophy, it trickles out in the work that you're doing for your clients and creating meaningful content that creates this demand. So that leads which would otherwise be very cold leads. They're warmed up, and they're they're ready to make a business decision with you guys when they're ready.

Steven Schmidt  06:57

Well think about it. When you're hungry Kap, what do you, I mean... Well, you're probably looking at you and your family, you probably guys he very healthy and never eat out. But let's say you did order food in. All right. So I know when we're hungry, it is not a very logical decision, right? If we're hungry, we're going to try and remember well, we should kind of eat healthy, but you know what, this pizza looks really good. And we can get some, you know, mozzarella bread. And that's like a convenience response. Right? You're overspending you're in overindulging, you probably order too much food, well, that was really good. I just dropped 100 bucks, whatever everybody's fed, that was easy. That's like the easy button, right. But if you're hungry, and you have to go buy food, and then you know, now you got to go to the grocery store, you got to prepare it and cook it now you got dirty dishes. And it's like, if we can be the button, that's the easy button, versus companies having to go out and do that themselves that that's like utopia, right? Everybody would want to say, like for your business Kap, if you knew there was 100 CEOs who are companies you'd be willing to work with, meaning you'd enjoy their company, they pay their bills on time, like they're they have a vision that's aligned with your kind of code of ethics, and all the great things that go into business. If I could say, Kap, I'm gonna go get them up in line them up. Like, that is the utopia that we strive for, for our clients. And then if we get, you know, 20 or 30 of those people are happy. And there's a lot of work there, right? Because because if I brought you 30 paying clients next week, and said pick five, you'd probably say, really? Like, it's it isn't that easy. But it can be easier than what we do, which is we kind of all get busy. Like you're a small business owner and a family guy, we sit around, we're busy. But then when we want to grow, we go, how? What do we do? Do we take out ads? Do we make better videos? Do we get a better website? And a lot of people don't think what if we created outbound demand generation? And then people say, well, "cold calls don't work". Well, it's not just cold calls. It can couple with a backdrop of a great video, right? Because if you say send me more information, and I say, "Kap, what exactly would you want to see that would make you actually open the email and take three minutes of your precious time?" And if it's a video that's well done that I send them that's going to have a huge impact. So now I'm doing marketing as a salesperson. And now my job is to nurture that lead without being a jerk. I now need to give them information they can consume like the post you said you saw on LinkedIn where you learned from it, how can I have these people learn? And every month they get a little piece that says, "hey Kap thought of you hope your new baby's doing well and this two minute video made me think of you and your business when you talked about your growth strategy." I'm asking for nothing. You just got to keep giving. And that's a, pardon me, that is to me besides this ragweed Holy smokes, that is to me where most businesses want to be they just don't know how to get there. Sure.


Kap Chatfield  07:05

And I don't know about that we eat out plenty.   Sure. So how how did you do that for this massive case study that I was just referring to? Tell us, tell us about the story. The hook is on your website. That's what I saw. That's what made me click to read. And you guys took a business last year from zero to $100 million dollars in 90 days. Tell us how you did it and how you deployed this strategy you're talking about.


Steven Schmidt  10:19

That's a fun story. So I was decided to be consultant, right in the beginning of 2020. So it was about a year and 9-10 months ago now. And just arrived at that decision. I said, Well, this is what I want to do. And that was right when COVID hit and I got hired by a couple of guys were entrepreneurs out of New York. And they said, You know, I think that this is going to be a pretty big deal getting PPE in the United States, and I didn't know anything about it. We talked that day, and I said, you know, we'll we'll come make it happen, I can put it tech stack in there where we can go out to the top 1000 healthcare systems in the world. And we can create all these bots that are super persistent, and we will call too, and then we're gonna have content and they said, "How much does it cost?" I said about a half a million. And they said, "Great, let's do it". And so I hired a team of 46 people, awesome people, for the most part. We're very, very hard working. And we're really mission driven, because there was so much bad stuff happening with PPE. But over time, we developed a reputation as being reliable, fair price, given the market was all about price gouging, then that started where it was manufactured. But we just engage in these conversations. Often with purchasing people with CEOs, COOs of large systems, I would get your text messages from a CEO of like a big top 10 healthcare system was a little bit overwhelming. And then it became a reality when people were starting to wire us 6, 8, 10 million dollars at a time. Because now Kap we had to go work our way into Malaysia to get what they were looking for, which was the only place where nitrile gloves, for example, are being manufactured. Who has ever thought of nitrile gloves? I mean, you put them on your hands when you when someone's got blood, right? Maybe. But in a hospital, it's like one of the critical things that they need, and they switch them out, every time they see a patient. Those were five times the normal cost. And so to get them on a boat on time over the ocean, with like 12 brokers in the middle of it, who are controlling the outcome of this and for it to land and get to the hospital on time, felt like a small, little tiny miracle. And we kept doing it and we kept building. And over time, we did 160 million in six months total. And the company ended up getting acquired for 70-ish million dollars. And they're now you know, they're a penny stock company. But I left the company to form TIDAL, but man talk about a wild ride for six and a half months. That was the most intense period of my life for sure.


Kap Chatfield  12:50

That's insane, dude. So did you have to go and figure out that whole chain of supply and how to how to find the manufacturer, figure out how you're going to get it to America? Do you do all that?


Steven Schmidt  13:05

It involve multiple people, and there was, you know, a lot of people in the Jewish community out in New York, were involved because they're really good at international trade. And we'd have to get interpreters to talk to people from Malaysia. And you know, I don't use WhatsApp, I deleted it for the rest of my life. But I would get like 500 a day, you know, from people who are trying to sell us stuff, and you know, 90% of them weren't real. And so we'd have to do these videos where like, go through and video the factory, show us making them and hold up a sign with our name on it. So let's say for example, you know, Steve Schmidt, September 1t 2020, and then I have to have the name of the hospital on it, and then I'd have to show that video to the hospital to show them they were real. And getting that video, they would want like $10,000 for the video. And you had to trust that they were actually going to go do it. So then we even hired a guy at the end, who was a former FBI agent who would go over there and do research on the people in the factory. So before we ever exchanged money, he knew everything about their personal life back to the date that they were born, who their family was, what money they were tied to, that was tied to any sort of illegal trade. It was overwhelming. So it makes this work seem pretty easy.


Kap Chatfield  14:18

What on earth that is, that's so much crazier than I thought it was. Like you weren't just making cold calls, trying to just you know, get a product sold like you had to figure out basically, you had to create this whole business model, and in a pandemic! That's oh my gosh, so what was a what was one of the greatest lessons you learned about sales and marketing that you've now applied to TIDAL through that wild season?


Steven Schmidt  14:48

Yeah, trust trust. Trust is everything in the buying process. And it is amazing the stake that these people will put in a person they've never met before, for something at that time they all needed desperately. So when you're approaching a normal market, like you know they said ice to eskimos was kind of like that is the joke, but not a lot of the stuff we have is so in demand that your phone is ringing off the hook, that your emails so full that you got to go through two pages by the time you wake up. But if you're lucky enough to have that problem, like you've now got to give the trust that although they desperately want it, it's tied to like a life event that you're reading on the newspaper every day, you know, hospitals are short on stuff, ER's are packed and then there's the political things with people like COVID isn't real, it's real, it's not real. And then you're swimming in the middle of it going I just don't want to end up on the front page of the New York Times. That was my biggest worry and we had a customer who came to us after they were featured on the New York Times and they they flew the hospitals, listen to this Kap, and you can go to the article go to Bay State Health, New York Times and there's a page and a half article about when they got raided by the FBI. Because they It was like week seven of the pandemic they took the company to hospitals helicopter the CEO took it down to meet these people who are going to give them these N-95 masks in a warehouse and then he had have him drive the refrigerated truck down because it was the only thing that could fit this much stuff in it so it's like the senior purchasing directors' driving a semi going to meet these guys they've never met before in a warehouse and the FBI raided them. And they got held there for 24 hours. And


Kap Chatfield  16:32



Steven Schmidt  16:33

And the guy had to literally drive the semi back full of these N-95 masks that were refrigerated and get there in time so the masks would still be preserved so they wouldn't freeze over. And it was just like as like Is that real? Did that happen? He goes, "Oh yeah, that happened" and I just thought what crazy times are these, you know?


Kap Chatfield  16:55

I just looked up the article I'll put it in the show notes for people to read. That's that's that is so crazy. So okay, so you mentioned one one thing that was that really stuck out to me was you said that trust and if I could kind of paraphrase what you said, trust is really the greatest currency that you can have with people in order to do business with them because they were writing you really big checks or they were wiring you a lot of money and now they're they're basically like we're expecting you to figure this out You didn't even necessarily have the solution you're just like okay, now we have the money How do we you know, how do we turn this into a profit for us and get them what they're actually looking for?


Steven Schmidt  17:34

That's right yeah. And then if you had to return the money obviously the guys running it were like that's what we don't want to do that you did. I mean the margins were so thin because everybody thought we were racking it in but we're getting like 15 or 20%. Like most people don't want those profit margins. But when you get $8 million I think most people are gonna say like 15% of that's pretty good, you know?


Kap Chatfield  17:54

Definitely Helpful


Steven Schmidt  17:55

Definitely helpful, but you know, and I think that trust like when you did deliver and they were so elated because actually something got delivered to them they inspect and goes oh my god, we got the thing that we couldn't find anywhere else. I thought how do we do this for everybody else in normal times, right? How do we deliver people's perspective buyers? Because if you're selling soup there are people out there that want soup. And if you look around you, man I wish I could find someone to sell soup I go great, let's go find that people are hungry for soup. Like Google should be able to figure that out for you, right? But Google is so entrenched with, I mean Kap if you go there and say what is the best local pizza restaurant? You're not going to get a subjective point of view or an objective point of view, pardon me. You're going to get a bunch of paid SEO right? Sure G2 crowd if you want to actually get a real review on software Good luck right? Because you're gonna go to a paid website. And it's so hard to find an objective view. How do you take that the middle the Google asked thing out of it still use the heck out of it? But say hey James Drake CEO at Embermine, you are someone who we feel could benefit from this this solution because it seems like you've had this problem that's a different conversation than just spray and pray you know? Try and pick out a couple people who maybe want to meet with you. And so there's an art to that man and you know, there's an art to what you do there's an art to what everybody does. The art to what do we do is being so insanely curious. It's not bots, it's not computers, it's not machine learning, right? It is so much curiosity that I wake up with a fire in my belly at 3am in the morning, go bingo got it. Right? And you know, the way to find Real Estate Buyers in South Dakota is to go to Reddit instead of zoom info to look for random b2c leads and say right who's looking to move to South Dakota? Oh my god, like there's 70,000 of them who were all talking about it right? And then I'm like, here we go. The conversations happening in real time, like bingo, the internet worked, you know,

210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_How to make B2B sales and marketing more human with a B2B podcast - Steven Schmidt_QG4

Kap Chatfield  19:55

Gosh, so really what you're doing is you're you're being an active proactive listener to what people are actually saying, rather than, here's all this data that would say that this person works for this company or whatever. And I'm not saying that there isn't a place for that. But you're actually doing something that isn't automated. As you mentioned, it's not a bot. It's like you're doing your your homework to, and you're also using this, this human instinct that is in all of us, that I think is way more effective at the end of the day than just relying on data. It's like, how do you, I'd love for you to talk about that regards to your company. Because, you know, we live in a world right now where everyone wants to be everything to be so automated. And I understand that there's automation makes things efficient, and it makes, it can make results more consistent and reliable. And that's great. But I think we've we've fallen in love with like the Tom Ferriss four hour our work week. And we've we've really, we forgot, we forgot, and that when people are on the phone trying to call Southwest or United or Delta, or Hotwire or whatever, the last thing they want to do is talk to a robot that tells them, "click this button to go here", they want to talk to somebody that can help them find a solution. But that doesn't feel scalable. So how do you as a business owner, how do you replicate you that art that you that you that's that you've developed? How do you translate that to the rest of your team so that you can produce those consistent results?


Steven Schmidt  21:32

Man, you just talked about the last week of our life, right? Because our biggest thing is how do we hire those people who are willing to learn how to do that? Or already have a good idea, which is hard to do, by the way, and you can imagine, like finding someone who's innately curious, is so rare these days, but I think it's always been rare. I mean, I'm not going to be one to say, "well, things are different now. And Kap, you and I live in a different time," like we do. Everybody can get computer generated machine learning information, and we're willing to pay a premium for it, right? Because we feel like there's something magical when I hit go, and it shows me I go, Ah, you know, sure, look at that data, right? And the data is just a bunch of things. This is going to get old. So so so vibe with me as a kid, say for a second, think about remembering a radio wave, right? Oh shoot, how about this cell phone, this thing that every takes for granted when I go "call Kap" at the speed of light, the speed of sound travels through fiber optic cables in the ground, goes into a cell tower over here travels at the speed of let's call it Jesus to Omaha, wires up through a cell tower finds your phone and if it doesn't happen within four seconds, I'm upset.


Kap Chatfield  22:46



Steven Schmidt  22:47

That's pretty cool! Like,


Kap Chatfield  22:49

That is cool.


Steven Schmidt  22:49

I can also text you and it magically tells you through fiber optics and shows up your phone and says what I meant to. That's a frickin miracle.


Kap Chatfield  22:58

It's pretty wild.


Steven Schmidt  22:59

It's really wild. And like when I was a kid like listen to am radio is like that's cool. That's a little bit of a miracle. Why is it fuzzy? That was like, so. So yes, data is good. Like that's data traveling in little packets to come to you to become human. Right? So how do I take those little packets of information when I go to zoom info and type "men between the ages of 25 and 40 in Omaha who are into fitness and Jesus" Kap Chatfield, okay, right? Like, I'm just using some broad stroke words, but vague list, right? Sure, sure. It's going to be about 60% accurate. We got to do better than that. And you and I both know, the only way to get better than that is to get human about it, which means go have conversations and find out who's willing to listen. And if someone raises their hand and goes, "Yeah, I could be into that", like boom, that's worth more than any amount of data that I just subscribed to.


Kap Chatfield  23:51

That is yes, yes, yes, yes. I couldn't agree more. And it sounds like you guys are in this process right now of really trying to figure out how do we codify screening the right people to hire that have that factor that curiosity factor, right? Because, because it really takes up that certain type of personality. When you when you guys develop that, I'll have to ask you for a follow up to say like, hey, how, how have you guys really develop that better? But the the next question that I have regarding that, specifically, is, how do you? How do you guys do that practically day to day? I want to share a LinkedIn post that you mentioned, that you shared a couple weeks ago, okay, I'm kind of paraphrasing it, but basically you broke down, like what your daily routine looks like. You're a guy that wakes up pretty early, you're an early bird gets the worm sort of guy and you you just hit the ground running and you start making calls. And so how do you approach that personally? How do you train your team to do that? Do you do to spend prospecting and making sure, hey, I'm calling people that I've done a lot of research about and I understand their business model or how do you approach that whole process? Just enlighten us.


Steven Schmidt  25:12

How do I approach it, I wake up and I think you and I were talking about this about a second cup of coffee and becoming awake. By the third cup of coffee i'm writing a blog post. And by the fourth one, I'm usually walking around on my porch at 4:30 in the morning, like, like, like Zach Galifianakis, and whatever the Hangover where the math spinning out of his... And I never used to be like, I used to be, you know, hung over in the morning. So think about this stuff. Now. I'm like, man, I'm just buzzing off coffee. And the way I approach it is, is I get my personally, I get my entire day, like, done by 6:30am. Every little task, everybody's like, "Well, how do you remember all this stuff Steve?" I just like I just get it done. And it drives me nuts. When I talked to somebody in two days ago, they said, "Yeah, sounds good. I'll get something to you" They don't get on. Like, how could you forget that? They're like, Oh, man, I'm just busy. But I think it when you approach your day, that way, like the rest of it, I've scheduled all my emails to go out. So I know that if you get an email at 4:15, in the morning, from me you're gonna think this guy's insane. And so I set delays on it when it goes up to prospects till 7:52am or 7:56. Like, right, when they're walking in the office on the elevator, they're trying to kill time and not look at some of the eyes, they look at their phone and go, who's Steve Schmidt? Right? And then I know that when they look at it, boom, call him right, because you get an alert that says so and so open your email twice, go Kap, you're getting a call, then answer my call, you get a text and answer my text, you get it on LinkedIn, didn't get my LinkedIn? see you tomorrow. And that method of combo prospecting, that I'm triggering with the first email is how I plan my entire day. And so I'm waiting for the response. And if I know they don't respond, I bring him through a couple of cycles, and then I'll kill it and put them into a nurturing sequence. But keep in mind, we're fortunate enough Kap where we don't do outbound prospecting. So we're usually nurturing 90 people who are interested, and then doing intake as well. And then I'll end here is, I get the privilege to go to my team of 30 people and work with them every day. And sometimes hear your question like, how do you teach people to do that? if you've got a good way, I'm buying it. Because the hardest part about being a founder Kap, you know, this is there's going to be days where you sit and go, they just don't get it. But that's your problem, not theirs. Because to take that knowledge out of my head is my responsibility. Otherwise, I have to own that hardship of saying I'm the only one who gets it. So I get the gift of trying to be more patient, when I don't want to be because it makes me a better person, it makes our company stronger, because there's a likely chance Kap that they have a better idea than I do.


Kap Chatfield  27:48

That's, it takes a real humility that is, that can be rare with founders, because I'll just say, as a as a co founder of our business. You know, I actually had this happen to me this week, where I was really humbled because I thought, "Man, there's so much that that just depends on me to figure out the solution for" and because I was out with the baby. I told the team, guys, I can't, I'm not going to be available, I need you guys to really step up. And I saw my team step up and make decisions in ways that were actually smarter than ways that I would do it. And then I actually tried to, even this morning, I tried to correct something that somebody else had made. And they explained to me why, hey, we cannot do what you think you want to do. We got to do it this way. And I was like, Okay, I'm glad you told me, you're smarter than me at this, I'm gonna let you figure out that whole thing. And so it's so much more freeing that way. And so I'm proud of you for having the humility to do that. But tactically, I want to talk about what you just said with the emails, if I may. So you have you're using some sort of software that allows you to do all these different touch points. It sounds like I mean, the way that you rattled it off, you basically whether you put it on paper, or an etched in stone, or just have this thing memorized, you have a specific process for how you follow up. And so you you have an email that goes out you see if the email was opened, I'm guessing you're alerted by that. What are you using a software for that how you do that?


Steven Schmidt  29:21

Yeah, so there's a lot of software out there: outreach, sales loft, HubSpot, go down the list where you can if you know how to set it up the right way, you can set all these things up and configure them in the back end so, you can delay the send, you can track opens, clicks, go down the lists and send alerts in real time, right? And the key is to act like the data if you just look at it go Wow, look at all those clicks. Like big deal. Like someone clicks pick up the phone and call.


Kap Chatfield  29:47



Steven Schmidt  29:47

Because, what an opportune time. It's on top of their mind right now. And they're gonna go oh my god, Kap This is so weird. I was just looking at your page. Now everybody knows that you can do this. But you and I both know the secret is in the person actually doing it consistently. Because just because they pick up doesn't mean they're gonna say I'm gonna take 10 of them Kap, this is so wild, I love it. Like they might be annoyed, they might be annoyed, you know.


Kap Chatfield  30:12

And so that's where bringing value is so important because what you're doing is you're creating a relationship where it's not just asking, asking, asking, but you're providing something and also having... you're a very socially aware guy. I think that also is very helpful for sales because you can I think you can read the room really well, you can read the other person. So let let me ask you, do you when you're in a sales call, or texting or whatever, you're not a guy from how long I've known you were, you seem like, you're overly assertive. I think you have a lot of tact. So what do you when is a? When do you realize it's time to step back? And how do you? How do you like kind of re-strategize after that? Do you like wait a few days, kind of walk me through? In your mind, if you were like to get on a call with me as a prospect, and I was expressing very little to no interest? What would you do from there?


Steven Schmidt  31:11

Yeah, let's roleplay How about that? Let's give everybody a change to see it in motion. All right, you're, you're going to give me the responsive, whatever it is, you're going to say okay, so "Hey, Kap. Steve, I wanted to call the follow up today. I know you're busy. So I just want to ask, Is this a good time to maybe take two or three minutes?


Kap Chatfield  31:29

Hey, Steve, you know, it's not really that great of a time. I'm about to get on another call with my my team right now.

210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_How to make B2B sales and marketing more human with a B2B podcast - Steven Schmidt_QG2

Steven Schmidt  31:38

Got it? How about one minute?


Kap Chatfield  31:40

One minute? All right. Well, let's, let's see what you got in one minute. I'll give you one minute.


Steven Schmidt  31:47

Sure, sure. So Kap, I've sent you the proposa.l I'm sensing this is kind of shuffled in the deck of well, I should wind it back. Let me go back to this when we originally talked, this seems like something you really, really wanted to do. Is, can I just confirm that?


Kap Chatfield  32:01

Yeah, I was interested. Um, you know, I'm to be honest, I'm not sure if our company's in a position to be able to buy what you're what you're offering right now. But yeah, it's, it's interesting, for sure. Yeah.


Steven Schmidt  32:15

It is interesting. And I get it, you have a decision to make, and I'm not even gonna force anything, I get it that it seems expensive. And Kap, I'm just going to leave you with one final thought and one of the most influential guys I've ever met in my life. I think about this often. And I'm not saying we're the winner or the loser. But keep this in mind Kap: winners and losers in business in life, are made by simple decisions. I want this to be the right decision for you. But I also don't want you to lose. I really think that this is going to make you win. But you have to decide that so go to your meeting. But I really want you to think about whether or not this is still going to make you win like you thought at first. Or if you're more in the mode of fear of loss. And if you're motivated to win, let's reconvene when it works for you. Does that sound like? Sound like a good plan?


Kap Chatfield  33:03

Yeah, I think, man, you gave me a lot to think about. So I appreciate that. And yeah, why don't you Why don't you send me a follow up email in a in a week? And if you have some other material you could send my way I'd love to check it out.


Steven Schmidt  33:17

Last question. So I will send you material, I'm sure your emails stuffed. What exactly do you want to see because I'm going to make that the subject line? And then when do you want me to follow up? Because I know you're busy and I want to keep you on task. And you can tell me to scram, or we'll have a discussion about how to move forward.


Kap Chatfield  33:31

You know, I think one thing that would be helpful for me is if you could show me a case study about a company that's similar to mine and my same industry and b2b marketing. If you could show us how you've been able to help them what problem you solved and how exactly you solved it. I'd be really interested to see that.


Steven Schmidt  33:51

Got it. Jim Caruso, Apollo out of New York. I'm going to send you that and give you his call number as well. So if you feel like jingleing him and seeing how we helped them that at least will be now in your control. And if I don't hear back from you, I'm okay with that. But I know you have everything you need. Does that sound like a plan?


Kap Chatfield  34:04

Sounds like a plan and Steve, you got to I got to admit you kept me longer than 60 seconds and I'm not even mad about it. So well done. Alright. Thanks for that.


Steven Schmidt  34:14

Well go make the right decision. Go go go meet with your team. You're a heck of a leader Kap. We'll talk next week.


Kap Chatfield  34:18

Okay, sounds great.


Steven Schmidt  34:21

There that's felt good! Right? Although it was forceful it still felt like you're in control,


Kap Chatfield  34:25

Dude, that was awesome. I was like, as you were, I was you were doing it. I was like this guy is like just Jedi mind tricking me right now. And I felt good about the whole thing. And I'm actually I'm gonna rewatch when like when we're producing this post producing this episode I'm going to rewatch and kind of study that a little bit more, maybe make like a follow up post because there were so many things about what you did that were that were not presumptuous. I think that's sometimes when I listen to salespeople, and they they lead with like, "Hey, don't you want to win?" It's presumptuous to well, you don't think that I have the capacity to win with what we're doing right now? And, and you framed it in such a way where it was really about being more confident in your ability to help us win, and how and showing empathy for, "Hey, I know that you want to win, who was who's in business to want to lose?" And so you showed, you showed confidence, you showed empathy. But you also put the ball back in my court, and you showed me, Hey, no one's gonna make the best decision for your company other than you. But I want to remind you of what you really want. And I want to remind you also of what we're able to do, so that really, that really impacted me in that moment. And I think the quote was really cool, too. So I think your ability to bring not just your opinion, but to bring a quote, that was like a 30,000 foot view, 30,000 foot eternal truth. So to speak like this, this truth applies to everyone in all businesses, and I want to share it with you, because it's going to make you think about your business in a different way. I'm going to, I'm going to be thinking about how I can leverage that to because it's just helpful to put things in context. The final thing I would say, that I thought was really cool, was when I when you asked me, "What do you want?" And I was, you know, you made it so that you wouldn't have to guess or shoot in the dark. You also kind of gave me some anticipation, because now I know, Hey, he's gonna send me something that I'm actually interested in. And as soon as I asked you for that case study about my industry, you gave me a name. You knew exactly who would fit that and you even gave me a you're willing to give me a contact, so I could reach out to them. To me, that just oozed confidence that oozed you you heard what I'm saying you understand what I really want but you're also you're just putting the ball back in my court I'm telling. That was masterful really well done.

210501_RM_B2BP_Ep_How to make B2B sales and marketing more human with a B2B podcast - Steven Schmidt_QG3

Steven Schmidt  36:58

Yeah. Thanks but I just watched it I mean, I've learned everything from people before me who are around me, right? So it's I feel like there's a lot of good books Kap out there there's a lot of great people, and eventually and you and I both know this, you or me do not have the power or the influence to change anybody's mind. We have the ability to give them the confidence that they're going to make the right decision. There's not a lot of times you and me show up and sign something and go, "I don't think this is the right decision but I'm gonna sign it anyways". Right? We all go in full intention. We have the best intentions. Everybody's got crazy intentions! People's execution largely in part sucks and so they would say well that's marketing, right? You talked a big game now own up to it, right? So I have to make it your decision. Because if it's mine and I don't deliver that's on me, right? And expectations are everything, right? So what do you expect Kap? Like if another good question is this: Kap, if you were to move forward with this and I'm not saying you will, what would you expect to be the impact? Now you're saying "Not me", right? And if you don't think there's an impact, we're good, let's go back to just be in pals right? No harm no foul. But if you go, "Steve I don't really know what the impact would be I know you're not thinking about it, I know that it's not important". We're good I'm gonna put you in a nurture call you back in two months maybe it's then. The people who are really good at this are so consistent they live right in the middle and they live there and they go a little higher and a little low but they don't do this right winning, losing winning losing crazy barbells it's just that's insanity. And when people get into sales go I don't know how you can do what I say if you can find a way to be consistent, and like you Kap, you get a really good team around you to kind of watch your back, you watch theirs, that is so dangerous... to be consistent, and a little bit non-exciting is the way to win today in terms of execution.


Kap Chatfield  38:53

Consistent and a little bit non-exciting. I like that, that's that's really well done man I'm I'm I'm excited for it. As I said to rewatch that and make that like a standalone clip I think that's gonna be really powerful. Now, hey, let's let's transition a little bit to some of your content that you guys are doing. So you are you're doing this for your own business you're doing it for your clients. As I mentioned in the intro, you're the host of your podcast for TIDAL called Rise and you're also as I mentioned a serial content creator on LinkedIn. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the show that you're doing and how that's how that's helping you develop your business in some way versus tell us like what's the show about.


Steven Schmidt  39:36

The show is about lifting other people. So we talk about, it's two segments 15 minutes ish each. And you know you were just on the show people love, my mom love your episode. She's a fan of you Kap. We see she always says" Steve you to warn the other one, but I really like Kap" but I'm like, I know you would. The Show, the show was about You know before and after, because everybody wants I don't want to just hear about your successes and what you're doing now, how did you get there? And what obstacles did  you face along the way? That's the first episode. The second one is let's talk about now. It's a something I learned in like, in AA we always have to sit there in their little tin shed drinking coffee. And they say the best way to be a good steward to other people in the program is to say, when they come in and it's their first meeting with their heads between their legs, we say, you know, hey, here's what it was like for me and here's what it's like now. And that's the only thing you're supposed to say. Because that story allows them to make it their own right? And so for me that that it's a little bit personal, but I think people in general love to hear about like the drama then and the success of now they're more interested in the drama, but if you put the two together, it's very interesting. And you were six episodes deep. We just recorded three more. And we've got some awesome people coming up. I'm so so lucky. Kim Calc, Vani Harari, Tom Henderson, who puts together a big assembly of men that's led in a church here. So I've got people of faith, not faith. People who swear a little bit too much there is no this isn't the Steve Schmidt show. This is everybody else's show. I just been lucky enough to host.


Kap Chatfield  41:13

So what made you want to start it because it doesn't sound like, I'm sure there's some opportunity for your business where, you know, you're able to talk about your expertise and things like that, but it really sounds a lot more human and a lot more genuine and personal. So So why did you guys want to start the show and put your company's name on it?


Steven Schmidt  41:36

Well, number one is because I usually, by that time, I'm sick of talking about business and I love digging into people. And I feel like they there are some people are scared to do it. You can tell I'm bringing them down the rabbit hole, they don't want to go they're like nope. Today and I'm like, no, let's go back, and I'm like back further. Yeah, there, you know, because we've all got this messy thing of life. And when people can identify and go, "Oh, you too", that's when it gets interesting. Like, I listened to a lot of cool podcasts with tips and tricks. But I'm always going to tune in the one where I can. Like, I'm just driving or I'm sitting there and I'm going this is I rewind it, I go, this is awesome. Who is this person? And it really enhances, like life in general. Like there's nothing being sold. I don't follow up with podcast guests and go Hey, that was awesome to have you on? Do you want to buy some TIDAL? No, like, Great if that ever happens, because someone hears the podcast? Awesome. Do we do lead lead attribution on our podcast and figure out who's coming from there? No. Will we someday? Maybe. But, you know, I think you've got to get into 100 episodes deep and get a viewership before that can be a thing. And for me, I will tell you this, and I'll end my little, podcasts are extremely uncomfortable.


Kap Chatfield  42:48



Steven Schmidt  42:50

Not because I don't like to do them, I just don't have enough time to consume them. So my immediate thought is, no one's gonna listen to this because I can only listen to like two


Kap Chatfield  42:59



Steven Schmidt  43:01

And I know there's this huge space out there because I keep hearing about it from people like you and other people. And I'm like, honestly, I was like, I better do this thing. Because like LinkedIn, a year and a half ago, I had not posted anything more than once a month and looked for jobs. And then someone say you should start posting on LinkedIn. So I just started and I met people like you and go down the list of hundreds and people who work for us and, you know, made millions and hundreds of millions. And I'm sitting here going, I'm glad I listened to them. So


Kap Chatfield  43:31

I love, I love that you're just getting started in podcasting, really for the love of connecting with people and mining stories out of people. Because that I think is a stronger "why" than I'm just doing this because it seems like the marketing trend and I'm going to do the marketing trend. And there's nothing really wrong with that either. I think it's it's uh, you know, businesses need to do marketing. And so you got to find a way to do it that feels good for you. But I think what you are tapping into I don't know if you've really experienced this much yet, but even in how you approach your business, you you approach sales and marketing with a human first philosophy, and really having empathy for the person that you're that you're trying to sell to, you're reaching out to, I mean, even in our roleplay that's, that was the biggest thing that stuck out to me was I, I understand, as a business owner, especially for with what you do, you got to track and measure and document the call and what do they want? And what did we already send them? And where did what was their last touch? All that sort of stuff. You got to track that. But I didn't feel like I was part of your experiment. I felt like we were actually having a conversation and you knew me. And I think that that's so much that's so much deeper than like, here's a strategy that works for business. It's in your heart. It's at your  core and I think that, you doing your show the way you're doing it is developing that empathetic skill in you. And I think that's gonna that's ultimately going to help your business whether it's a customer at somebody on your show that becomes a customer or not. It's making you a deeper human a deeper and more relational human and that's so great for business.


Steven Schmidt  45:23

It is in so Gosh, Kap it like goes full circle back to the human side of things like the EQ, right we all know this. If you don't have EQ, go get some


Kap Chatfield  45:34

Go get some.


Steven Schmidt  45:35

Because although although we're entering this world of information, information, what becomes attractive when something becomes popular, is the thing that's not a part of the popular thing, right? So information is up, EQ is up, right? Peg jeans are out pegged jeans are in. Bell bottoms are out, bell bottoms are in. So you can start to weigh what will work off of what what isn't working. And then what is working won't work in 12 months. So how do you balance those two things, there's never been a bigger need right now for human connection. There's never been a higher rate of suicide, depression, anxiety, godless, soulless people sucked into these devices, myself included into the information, but I find a way through you and others to connect. I don't care if anybody listens to this and buys it. I care if someone says, "Steve, you and Kap that episode. I learned this for free, or you change my life with this". How do I change someone's life? But if I can do that, cash the cheque, not the physical one, the one that I got those deposits on EQ are becoming so important right now, because people are lost. And the internet can't give us an answer. And there's no subscription to make your life better. It's already there. You just got to you got to be willing to go create those relationships with people who when you look around, you wake up in the morning, go man, my life is amazing. Whether I succeed in business or not today, and Kap, you know, you inherently will, if you surround yourself with good people. Instead of having to live on the internet and figure out the next algorithm. Algorithms will be out in two years, maybe five years, although everybody's invested in them. Everybody's gonna say I want more human, I want more human. And guess what? Get ready for it now. Because you're gonna see companies built around human EQ, hit the stock market, and they're gonna go, How do I repeat it? You can't because he can't synthesize getting you know, you know, what about people?


Kap Chatfield  47:30

Oh my gosh, dude, I'm about to cry. Beautiful, it's so true. Like, one thing that we one thing that we set out for when we started our company was we want to see a redemption happen in marketing. We really believe that marketing can be used to move people, or it can be used to manipulate people. And I think what we're what we're seeing is like, you know, we're all tempted to do it, we're all tempted to find quick results and find ways to make it easier. And what happens then is we start to take shortcuts on people and, and that ultimately, it's meaningless, but to really bring meaning back to the marketplace and to, to marketing in the business. You got to be willing to do the hard things and connect with people. And in relationships, as you mentioned, they're eternal. And if you do relationships, right, it's going to help your business. So you're leading in that man, I'm really grateful that we're coming up to the end of our episode, unfortunately, I wish we had more time. But I just want to say I'm really grateful that you're willing to share that, and that you're doing things the way that you're doing them, because it's super attractive and refreshing to the market. So thank you. And thank you for even using your show as a vehicle to to make people feel heard and seen. It's beautiful.


Steven Schmidt  48:55

Thank you, brother, I appreciate everything about you. The world is a better place because of you. And you're changing lives . And I know you know it, I'm just grateful for you, buddy,


Kap Chatfield  49:05

Man. Well, let's, let's finish off with this one last thing, I want to make sure that people have an opportunity to connect with you. And maybe be so impacted by your next LinkedIn post that they drive from whatever state they're in to go grab lunch with you. So how can people connect with you, whether it's your show or your you know, wherever, wherever you feel most comfortable with people getting connected?


Steven Schmidt  49:27

Oh, goodness sakes, what a great question. You can call me 605 21 148. You can find me on LinkedIn at Steven Schmidt. And just put Steven Schmidt TIDAL or you can you know, I guess anywhere I guess I'll respond to anybody. Anytime. We did this post the other day, where I put my number up to text and I got 37 texts. I took eight meetings, and I answered every one of them. And it was fun because I think I just connected with people and they were like, "Oh my gosh, you answered! A real person". I said, Yeah, of course.


Kap Chatfield  49:57

Right is we got boss I love that I get so many spam texts these days, I'm kind of hesitant to do that. But if I get a new business number, I might do that same tactic too. So please reach out to Steve, send him a text message connect with him, you will not regret it. He's such a great human being, and a brilliant businessman Steve, thanks so much for joining us on the show today.


Steven Schmidt  50:21

God bless


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