- Rveal’s website: rveal.media
- Rveal’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rvealmedia/
- Rveal’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC69p14R2ccMdyUbbmdlWCEw
Kap Chatfield 0:20
Hey gang, welcome back to B2B Podcasting. Today, our guest is Scott D. Clary. He is the host of The Success Story Podcast, and he is a serial content creation machine. I'm so grateful to have him on the show today and your guys are gonna be super impacted by our conversation. I just know it. So Scott, thanks for joining us today.
Scott D. Clary 0:41
Dude, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. I'm excited to chat content, podcasting and everything in between. So let's do it.
Kap Chatfield 0:46
Let's do it. So as we kind of talked about on the pre-show call, when we are intro-ing featured guests on our show, we typically you know, share their name, we share a little bit about what they're doing for their business, job title, company. And then we share the host of, producer of, whatever their show is, their serial content creation vehicle is, but your content creation vehicle basically is your business right now. So like that's why it was such an easy title. Can you explain to us, just give us a bit of a background of what you have been doing in the past. I know that you said you also have a nine to five job that you're doing. But content creation, that's like you're going all in on that. So explain what you're doing these days.
Scott D. Clary 1:24
Sure. So background's in tech, more specifically in sales and sales and marketing. Obviously individual contributor at a certain point in my career, then moved into sales, leadership, sales and marketing leadership, did a little bit consulting work, which is actually when I started trying to build my own name, my own brand up. And then double down on one of the companies I was doing consulting with, was there CRO for the past three years, just exited. So we were acquired about three months ago now, when we're recording this in October. So my background is in sales and marketing, trying to bring products to market, early stage startups is sort of like my niche and my sweet spot. Why I decided to build a brand for myself? I see what it has done for the people like this is so cliche, but like the Gary Vaynerchuk 's and whatnot, and the people that have built such a name for themselves. And once you have that, you can take any launch any new product, you can sell anything you want. So I figured listen, I sort of live and breathe sales and marketing. It's what I do every single day, why not build a brand around what I do? So I can just sort of speak about what I do what I learned. And hopefully some of the stuff that I've learned over my career can be helpful for people that are sort of, you know, coming up in their career. So that was sort of the the first, I guess, reason as to why I started putting out content. Didn't start with a podcast right away, I started actually going really hard on LinkedIn, because it really fit like my persona, like who I was. And then I wanted to create an easier content strategy. So the content strategy that I have for myself now is something that I would teach over to a business if they were going to start a content, if they wanted to focus on the content strategy for their business. I wanted this pillar content that could be used across all of my social media mediums, which meant I needed like some long form, big piece of content that I could break down and disseminate everywhere. And I was trying to figure out okay, so what is that? Well, usually it's like some sort of video or audio or something like that. And for me, it just made sense that interviewing incredible business leaders unpacking their playbooks, telling their story, that sort of fit with my personal brand. So I just started my own podcast, interviewing business leaders at the beginning that I had knew that known in my career, and then I started getting bigger guests. And I just used that as a content strategy for me. So I wanted to be known as somebody who was in sales and in marketing. And I used a podcast, a video, a bit of video podcast, as my main content pillar to create this content that resonated with my brand. And the reason why I wanted to bring on all these other notable experts onto my show was because I knew that nobody really cared about me who I was because I wasn't really a big name. So how do you get people interested? Well, you bring on other incredible interesting people, you teach people something that, you know, that's useful for their career. And of course, they can listen to me or they could listen to people like, you know, like the Guy Kawasaki's of the world. Or if you're into finance, like Anthony Scaramucci, or you can listen to like, you know, Mark Randolph, co-founder of Netflix. You can learn from them, which have like a much bigger profile than I do. And that was sort of the way to build my own name, my own brand. So I just created a really comprehensive content strategy based on podcasting, that now obviously has built my name up. That's why you know, Kap found me and brought me on to the show, but that's the same strategy at its core that I'd recommend that businesses do for themselves as well. So that's sort of my my story and why I have the show and where I'm at right now.
Kap Chatfield 5:02
That's awesome, man. So you have a background in marketing and sales. Did you have any sort of strategic direction about who you wanted to invite on your show in regards to that being your background? Or were you just thinking like, Hey, I just want to get some, some big killers in business in general, and have them jump on the show. Just wanna hear a little about your strategy for for which featured guests you decide to bring on.
Scott D. Clary 5:24
So originally, it was entirely focused on VPs of sales and marketing CROs. The podcast actually was originally called Sales Versus Marketing. It was a play on words, because I truly always believe in having like, that alignment between sales and marketing. So that was the whole point of the show to sort of highlight sales and marketing leadership, and, and have that be the guests that I was or the audience that I was trying to tap into: all these incredible sales and marketing leaders. And as I started to build up the show, I honestly realized that there was a lot of sales and marketing podcasts out there. I didn't really want to niche down into sales and marketing. And I wanted to create a show because I had like, big aspirations for myself. I was like, listen, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this for you know, the next 20 years. And I want to be up there with the Joe Rogan's and the Tim Ferris's. So how do I do that? Well, for me, it was okay, I am, you know, I know a lot about business. I know a lot about sales and marketing, but I want to open it up a little bit. So I thought, how do I learn? Like, how does Scott learn? And I learned from people that are yeah, business leaders, but they're also other leaders that are focused on personal professional growth. And the best way that I frame it now is, it's like Tim Ferriss with a little bit less focus on hallucinogenics, a little bit more focused on business. And like, that's how I like to learn. Those are the people that I like to learn from. So I want to create content that resonated with me, and I'm hoping that that has enough of an audience that I can build a name for myself as somebody that just interviews and has really smart conversations with business or business adjacent people. And that's sort of how it progressed, because I just wasn't happy with the first version of it. I wanted it to be a little bit different than somebody that just focuses on that sales and marketing content. So I was strategic at all steps. But it did change as I as I grew.
Kap Chatfield 7:07
I love that you weren't afraid to rebrand the podcast and allow it to evolve. And I think that's something that a lot of people, particularly in b2b. Because I don't know man, in b2b people just are, I unders I can understand I can empathize with a little bit, but people don't really want to take risks that much. Because there's so much on the line, you're got to, you know, you have other decision makers that you're accountable to, you want to make sure that you go in the right direction. Of course, we all want to make sure that we're taking the right step. But nobody ever begins a business with a perfect business strategy. Creating a business, it takes evolution, it takes pivoting, it takes reading the market and moving with the market as it shifts. And I think it's the same with creating some sort of content strategy, especially in the form of a show like you did. You just kind of get started, just just see where it goes. And then it sounds like what you started to see was, as you were doing the content, you started to realize more about, hey, this is where do I really want to go? What do I want to be known for? Who do I want to network with? What do I care about? And, and also, I'm sure there was probably an element too, I don't want to take the words out of your mouth, but probably even some like understanding your customer or your audience, I should say. And then understanding like, hey, what resonates with them really, really well? And how do we do more of that? And not being afraid to say like, hey, we did this. Well, the only reason why we know what we really want moving forward is because we took a step. And it wasn't the perfect step at first. So could you please just even speak into like the hesitancy that a lot of b2b brands face when starting some sort of episodic content model or a show?
Scott D. Clary 8:45
That's, I love that you brought that up. Because I think that people generally think that what they've created impacts a lot more people than it actually does, especially when they start. When you start something, okay, let's take it back. So you start a business, we're not gonna talk about podcast. You start a business, the day one business is gonna be much different than the year 10 business, okay? It's never going to be the same and what makes a good entrepreneur is your ability to iterate and to improve and to continually change and not just pivot but like be okay with leaning into new things and taking risks. Yeah, for still not the podcast. You you launch a new product. Is that product that you launch gonna be... so your you're Fortune 100, you launch a new product, the product you launch is still not going to be the same in six months or a year from now as when it first launched. Not at all. If it's even a product, because how many times have we even like launch products and scraped them cuz they just absolutely suck even though we like spent like $20 million dollars trying to take them to market. So like, why would be, why would a podcast be any different? So you're launching the podcast you're launching a content strategy. And first of all, no one cares cuz nobody's listening to your podcast even if you are a Fortune 100, really nobody cares. Like Microsoft has launched podcasts, Travelocity has launched podcasts. And they've changed and they've launched second seasons and different types of podcasts and different shows. When you launch something, nobody cares. But also, whilst to that point, if nobody cares, then why would you worry about the impact? You should only worry about the impact of changing something, or altering something if it's maybe making you, you know, $50 million plus dollars a year, maybe then you start to think about, do we want to make that change because it has an X amount of revenue associated with it? And we were talking about attribution and whatnot, that's a whole other can of worms to go into. But if it's not making you money, and no one's listening to it, like most b2b podcasts, when they first start out, iterate on it until somebody cares about it. And then also try and find attribution, try and find and tie that effort and that energy to revenue. But until that happens, and it's happening at a significant to a significant scale, like, there's no reason why you should ever be married to one concept, because you wouldn't be married to one concept in any other aspect of your business if it wasn't working. So I just think it's silly. It's just stupid. It doesn't make any sense why you'd be scared about changing it. Because, again, nobody really cares. No one's gonna know it.
Kap Chatfield 11:10
And yeah, exactly. Like, it's like, that's the perfect time to start experimenting, because you're still obscure. Like, I think obscurity is actually a huge gift. Because you start to really understand like, hey, what do I care about? What works? You get, like, you go through like your awkward teenage years of content creation, when no one's really even paying attention to you. And you're trying to figure out like, how do I use this body that's like changing shape and size? And you start to grow into yourself a little bit. So I think that's really good. I appreciate that feedback. Now, you made a comment, you made you made a clear distinction about when you started your show, you didn't do an audio podcast, you did a video podcast. And for whatever reason, I see a lot of business businesses starting audio only podcasts. And quite frankly, I don't I don't get it. I think video podcast is the only way to go. But I want to hear firsthand from you. Why did you think that video podcast was, it was the way to start this show model for yourself?
Scott D. Clary 12:10
So first, I'll speak to what you just mentioned, where most businesses do audio only. And this is still a point of contention with me and several people that are really big podcasters that I don't understand why they don't turn on the camera. And usually the general sentiment is I'm not comfortable, or I don't want to get ready every time I do a show or whatever. I get it. And I think that it's more important to start than to not start because you're uncomfortable. But still, I would say that if you can push yourself to turn on a camera. For me, I'm well aware that YouTube is a second largest search engine in the world. And I'm also I'm also well aware that if I'm going to use a podcast to build my name, and my brand, people have to see my face, because the people that see my face, there's going to be a level of trust that's built with them. If you look at the podcasters that have audio only versus the podcasters that have video and audio, it's not even close as to who has a larger, more influenceable following or just loyal following. And one thing like really, YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world. And if you notice something with social, if you have a YouTube influencer, or even a brand that does well on YouTube, there's like a certain level of trust is built with your audience that can't be built across other social platforms. And when you see a brand that does well on YouTube, they're following starts to or a person that does well in YouTube they're following starts to find them in other spots because they feel like they know this person. And I've never seen that with any other social platform. You don't, you can see people with large Twitter followings and no one on Instagram no one on YouTube. You can see people with large Instagram followings and no one on YouTube, no one on Twitter. But if you look at anybody with a large YouTube following, they have lots of followers and community everywhere else. So for me, it was okay, I'm already making the content, why wouldn't I make the most of my time and just use it everywhere? Because if I now make video content now I not only have a podcast that can be distributed across RSS feeds, you know, across the internet, that's great. Maybe I can turn it into a blog or something like that. But now I also have small little social clips and we talked about content distribution, because that's part of my process, but I have YouTube videos, I have little social videos, I have now I can double down on Instagram because I have little clips, I have reels, I have Tik Tok, I have YouTube, spot I have snapchat spotlight, I have YouTube shorts. I have everything because I did video as opposed to what? Like I see people that post these little squares on Instagram of like audio wavelength behind or in front of a logo. That's and it's just it's so painful. So it's you know what I'm talking about?
Kap Chatfield 14:45
I do. I do! I just I just have never seen one that I was like oh my gosh stop the scroll. I need to see what they're saying. It's like Oh, dude, I don't
Scott D. Clary 14:55
Marketing's hard enough man. Kind of content marketing is hard, socials hard enough. So for me, I rather put the heart in, I'd rather put the heart in when I'm recording, as opposed to trying to grow an audience with little square with audio waveforms. Because I can tell you which ones has a chance of working. Video has a chance of working, audio waveforms don't, man, it's never gonna happen. So don't make it, don't try. It's embarrassing, that like you shouldn't do it. If you have a podcast, don't post a square audio waveform on Instagram, because no one's gonna listen to it, it's not gonna work.
Kap Chatfield 15:30
You're better off just taking a quote and making a quote graphic than doing the audiogram. 100%. Because, which I agree, what I think the reason why it's so cringy. And by the way, if you're doing that right now, like it's never too late for a fresh start. You could do you could do something different after this. I don't, but
Scott D. Clary 15:47
I don't want to sound okay, so I don't want to sound like a dick. Because I know a lot of people aren't comfortable getting on video. I do empathize with that. A lot of people aren't comfortable getting on video. But I think that if you are going to, if you're not going to get on video, then don't try and have a don't try and turn your podcast into content on platforms that is suited for video or imagery. Yep, like there's other things you can do with it. You can,
Kap Chatfield 16:13
And that's the thing. For me, it's like, it's like if you're not going to, if you're if you're not going to go all the way just don't do it. Because it's when I see a video, like there's a certain psychology about like how I'm going to consume this content. And if it doesn't match what my expectations are, it's just going to be disappointing. It's just going to be disappointing, always. But if it's a static image, and you got the text right there, and I can, I can consume it as fast as I can read. Let's just say that that's like, another thing is like, I know how I'm going to consume it, I can consume it as fast as I can read. And I get value out of it. Great! I, we do quote graphics for our clients, like we believe in that. But to your point, it's like you're trying to you're trying to check the video box by not even doing what makes video video. It's like, speaking of Gary Vee, I'll just say this, because I've had people on my show before that will say like, they'll give Gary Vee a nod. And then they're like, you know, they make some comment about like, you know, I don't totally like him or whatever. And I get that, like, we're all free to like who we want to like, I love the guy. And I think he's a genius. And I honestly I attribute so much of of my content strategy to him and what he's doing, and he might, his personality might not be for everybody. But, Gary, if you're listening to this, I appreciate you. And I just love what you're what you're doing.
Scott D. Clary 17:33
How many other people, how many other people can just launch businesses? You know, many businesses that guy launches? Just like overnight? Too many. He has immediate access to community in the millions that can either validate... Yeah, exactly. It's because when you have that, and that's again, taking it back to why I started. It's when you have that audience, when you have a community, like you'll never go broke, like you'll always have something that you can do with that community. You can monetize in a million different ways. You can either monetize a community directly, you can sell them stuff, you can launch businesses against the community. You can just have social proof and sell that community to advertisers in the form of you know, newsletter sponsorships, podcast sponsorships. It's like building a community is so key. So I think that that brings it back to how do you do that the most effectively? For me, it made sense that Gary Gary Vee has done it. You even look at like a another another another guy's who's done it well? Grant Cardone. Like he launches his businesses like it's going out of style. Like he just launched another startup, he's launched incubator business, He's launching a health business, obviously his real estate thing. He does all these different classes and stuff that he sells. You don't have to love Grant Cardone or Gary Vee, and a lot of people don't, which is cool. But if you have access to six to 10 million people, like you're good. You're always gonna be good.
Kap Chatfield 18:56
You can do pretty much whatever you want. One thing that Gary Vee said, that really stuck out to me was, he compared like the shift from TV, to like the internet with your phone, to the shift from radio to TV. And he was saying how, when, if you look at the first TV commercials that came out, it was people who were doing radio commercials for TV, like they would be in front of a camera, and they would just read a script. And it was like, it just it's not how you even consume TV today at all. It's not even close. But it was like and that was like the disconnect was they were trying to do a radio format for TV. And, and that's where I think I was, you know, back to the audiogram thing is like, it's just a totally different format. So I love it. I love the challenge. I love the empathy because yeah, it's difficult for business leaders who are not used to this massive shift. I mean, we went through a massive shift last year where people who I know friend's personally, who are part of big companies, where they would spend north of $20,000 for a sales trip to go fly somewhere, wine and dine a customer, and hopefully get them to sign on the dotted line. And it's like $20,000, for the flights, the food, the hotel rooms, all that sort of stuff. And, and then last year, they had to do that same sort of process, in a one to two hour zoom call, and it was still effective. And so I think that's like a huge, it's like a huge shift for companies like, Oh, my goodness, this is like, being in front of a camera and creating a genuine relationship with somebody? I don't think it's ever gonna go away. And so it's gonna be really important for business leaders to, to learn how to embrace it and to and to embrace uncomfortable, try new things and start showing up because as you said, you know, you're the biggest brand that you have, it's not going to be your logo. It's not going to be your colors. It's not gonna be your fonts. It's gonna be your face.
Scott D. Clary 21:00
Yeah, you nailed it, man. Every every company has to find a way to become a media company.
Kap Chatfield 21:06
And let's talk about that. That's a that's a statement right there. That's also very Gary Vee esk. So. Yeah, yeah, I can tell, I can tell you're a Gary Vee guy because of some of these comments. But it's so true. It's, you know, companies, he would say companies need to stop being, you know, a, a blank company that creates media, and then you start being a media company that sells whatever their products or services. So let's talk about that. When did when did that shift really happened for you, as far as like, deciding you know, what I'm going to be a media company first?
Scott D. Clary 21:39
It was about about three years ago, when I started the podcast. That was it, it was like I want I want to be on all channels everywhere, like, as much as I can be. And the only way to do that, for me, feasibly, as a solopreneur, who had a nine to five, that was a very time consuming nine to five, was to find a way to build out process that allowed me to create content, regular, you know, at regularly at scale. And that just made sense to me. It's like, not only do I have the ability to create nonstop content, so I can post several times a day across different social platforms. But also, I can do it in a relatively smallish amount of time. And that allows me to still, you know, maintain my day job, which is a good day job, while I'm still building up my own brand. So I'm not, you know, not compromising the KPIs that you know, I'm accountable to, but I can still build my name out. And then also it has the added effect of benefiting my company, because now I'm getting invited to, you know, webinars, to conferences. And it's, you know, at the time, it was, you know, Scott Scott, Clary CRO at ExciteM, and now it was like, you know, Scott Clary, Senior Director at Grass Valley, and that's, that's the guy who's stepping on stage. That's the guy who's speaking at the conference. So if you have a brand, and anywhere I go, any company I work at now, that's going to be the title that's up there. So like, wow, I don't, I think it's just, it's all inside your head about getting comfortable, you know, putting yourself out there. But once you do, there's no reason why it wouldn't be a net positive for a company that you work at.
Kap Chatfield 23:17
I love that perspective, too. Because I think sometimes we get so afraid of like, well, what's my employer gonna think? And is this gonna bring too much attention to me? But like, rising tide raises all ships, right? Like your personal brand actually affects everything that you touch, including what you're touching for your employer. Obviously, if it's a good brand, like, you know, you can, of course, yeah, go in the wrong direction with your brand. But if you're doing something that's bringing value to the market, that's going to help everybody out. So you made a comment, and I'd love to dive into this. Because, you know, we talked a little bit about b2b brands, and how they should be creating content at scale and b2b, you know, ideally, if they're a more mature company, they're going to have people, they're going to have team, depth chart to like, actually do all the post production and all that sort of stuff for content. But you're a solopreneur, you said that yourself. So you said that you created some systems that allowed you to create content at scale, even as a one man band. So I want you to kind of unpack that. How did you, if you if you can, like unpack, like what yeah, what that flow looked like when you would record an episode.
Scott D. Clary 24:24
So let's walk through let's walk through my flow today because like, obviously, flow day one is not, it's is not great, right? But as long as, it's not pretty, but as you as you as you grow, then you start to get better. So record a 30 to 60 minute podcast. Let's go through tools that I use. So right now, I'm using the same camera that I would use for my show, which is actually my phone now. And I use my phone as a webcam by with an app called Camo Studio. So it's yeah, it's super, super simple. So it's the best possible camera I can get without getting a DSLR. So I also use recording on Riverside right now I also use Riverside. I have a Shure mic right now, which is a little bit pricey for most people starting out. Up until a couple, you know, a month or two ago, I was using a Yeti mic, which is like 100 bucks, something like that. 100 USB Super 150 portable. Yep. So you just plug that into your computer it's a USB plug in. So you got your camera, your recording platform, Riverside is great. You got your mic. Okay, so I record it. And then I pull it out into, I pull it out into Premiere. So then I'm actually creating the podcast. So I actually, you know, edit the intro the outro. Now, it's monetized. So I have like pre roll and mid roll ad spots. I export that as a, you know, mp4 video, I export it as audio as well. And before it goes up on YouTube, audio goes, well, I use I use podcast.co, audio goes there, it gets distributed to every podcast platform. So that's sort of like step one. Now I take that video, I take the audio file, I put it into otter.ai, which transcribes it. So from that transcription, I create show notes and a little mini blog that I put on my website. I also sometimes take points that have been discussed in the podcast and answer some questions on Quora by copying and pasting little paragraphs that were discussed into questions on Quora so that drive some traffic back as well.
Kap Chatfield 26:27
Pause. Sorry, so then will you like link the episode and those answers in Quora?
Scott D. Clary 26:31
Kap Chatfield 26:32
Scott D. Clary 26:34
Yeah, well done. So it's Yeah. So it's a, it's another it's a, you're just repurposing the content again, and again. That's great. And, of course, the blog on your website, blog on the website. Obviously, that's more content on your site so that's great for SEO. Now, next, I would I also post, I also publish a blog on Medium just to get more eyeballs on it. And that links like, the it links the YouTube video, it links the podcast. And then it has the show notes and timestamps that I pull out from otter.ai on Medium. And then I take that long form video, and then I'll break it into like a small little like, say, two to five minute clip. And I'll also break it into like a 30 second to one minute clip. I'll find something that's discussed in that like, is really great. Like I like a, you know, a quick little clip that has some really great insight in it. I take the, I take both of those clips. And I use an app called VEME.LY. So V E ME dot L Y. And that app, it's only on iOS. So like iPhone, but it allows you to do the transcript from the subtitling and then it also allows you to do like those again, Gary Vaynerchuk style social posts. So where you have like the the certain you go to Gary Vaynerchuk on Instagram, and know exactly what I'm talking about. That style where he has like the header with like the the words at the top, and then you have the subtitles underneath. And so then I use that app to create socials, like those two to five minute clips and those 30 second to one minute clips. And then I'm posting those two to five minute on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn. And then the shorter clips like the 30 second to one minute, I can do tick tock Snapchat spotlight, YouTube shorts, Instagram reels. So that one piece and I could you know, I just I just mentioned I took two clips, I could take four clips, for example, and run through the same process or six clips if I wanted extra stuff on Instagram or on Facebook or whatever depends. Now I release two to three episodes a week. So I don't really have to do like that many clips from each show, because I'm going to run out of... I'm going to I'm going to be inundating my timeline with stuff. But if you needed to, you could take like five little clips, two to five minute clips, or even less like say one to three minute clips out of one episode, and just have those up on your Instagram or on your LinkedIn and just have like a piece of content per day. And that's pretty much my process. So now that one episode has, has created content across, I don't even know like what like 6, 7, 8 different platforms for five to seven, you know, five to seven days, depending on how much I want to post. That's, that's Yeah, and I also post what else where else do I post it? I also post a link to the podcast on Hacker News. And I post a link to the show on Reddit as well. So I just go everywhere with it, but there's not much content that you can really post in those places outside of like a text link and and the URL. But that's that's my strategy. And I just do that again and again and again.
Kap Chatfield 29:36
How long have you been doing that for, three years you said?
Scott D. Clary 29:38
Yeah, three years. Yeah.
Kap Chatfield 29:40
That's not even that long. That's no like that's that's a for you to be where you are right now with that level of consistency. That's, that's amazing, man. Congrats good for you. So now that was asked....
Scott D. Clary 29:54
Yeah, I was gonna say well it takes like an hour to record the show, and to two and a half hours to three hours to do the the editing. Depending on if it's like a clean if it's a clean show, and there's nothing that gets screwed up or whatever it's like, maybe two hours. If I have to stitch some stuff together maybe three hours. And then I have, okay, so four hours invested and I have social content for myself for a week. And I do it on the weekend.
Kap Chatfield 30:21
That's awesome. Way to go, man. That's, yeah, that's, that's a strategy right there. So again, this guy, Scott is doing this all on his own, solopreneur, building a brand, getting his name out there on all these different platforms. Now, here's, here's a question I have for you, because I'm sure like we got we got to recognize we only have so much time in the day, we only have so much capacity for focus. You're distributing this content in all these different platforms. Are you like actively engaging throughout the day on all these platforms? Or are you focusing only on a handful?
Scott D. Clary 30:56
So I don't actively engage on all the platforms as much as somebody who had a team to do it. So I engage on Twitter, and I try and engage on Instagram. LinkedIn a little bit as well, too, but I usually do that, honestly, like, when when me and my girlfriend are like watching Netflix like I'm like on like Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn, like commenting and replying to people. If I don't do it one day, I'm not gonna beat myself up over it. But yeah, that's like a secondary, but I try to, because it's important to try like, if people are commenting on your stuff, I think it's important to show like a little bit of feedback and love to the people that are taking time. So I don't make it a main KPI. For me, it's like, get it posted, for sure. But if possible, take that downtime to, you know, double down on the community that's supporting you.
Kap Chatfield 31:49
I Love, I love the comment you made about it is important to take time to actually comment on, you know, replying to people's comments, building that genuine conversation and relationship. How have, I want you to speak into that a little bit more. And I'd love for you to share with us, have you experienced any, like really meaningful relationships begin because of that? Or have you seen, have you pulled any sort of qualitative feedback from people that is, has made you been like, you know what, I'm so glad I spent the time to actually connect with that person because this door opened up or this relationship started. Do you have anything to share?
Scott D. Clary 32:30
Yeah, so I guess I've had wins in a variety of different parts of my life. So through through answering people on in DMS and on LinkedIn, I've been invited to speak the farthest I've been asked to go is Morocco, which is pretty damn cool to do a keynote in Morocco for a marketing conference. Like that, again, was straight up from just talking to people like, this is not stuff that this is not stuff that comes into my inbox. Like, this is usually like business opportunity, it's usually on LinkedIn. It's usually from talking to people in the comments. You answer somebody who's answered tight, you know, commented on your posts for like, two months, and then all of a sudden, like, Hey, I'm actually organizing an event, I really love your content, would you like to speak at the event? That's happened, like, lots and lots of times. I, I've I'm trying to think like I've closed deals. I've closed, I've closed some deals from just chatting with people on again, on LinkedIn, a lot on LinkedIn. I've been invited to deals on LinkedIn through the DMS a lot. Friendships like yeah, tons of friendships. The people that I am, like really good friends with now, have just been because of just chatting with people on on LinkedIn. Some on Twitter as well, too, to be honest. Less, less on Instagram, more on more on Twitter and LinkedIn. I like, for example, one person who I became really good friends with, she's now helping one of my good friends get a job who was laid off. And I've known her for like three years, and she's in sales recruiting. And you know, like, three years later, now she's helping one of my good friends got a job after he was laid off. So I mean, and that's just from chatting with people. And it's not like you're chatting with them every day, right? Like, it's like, you just see them. Sometimes they hit up your post, sometimes they message you if, you know, if you're if you're friends with them on LinkedIn. Sometimes you don't talk to them for a month, and then you'll see them post something and then you comment on them, and then they'll comment on yours. And then you'll just start another conversation just out of nowhere just because of a post you saw that you thought was funny or whatever something happened. You're saying congratulations or something that happened in somebody's life. And you just sort of build this online relationship, which is super weird, but it's like the only relationships that we've really built over the past few years. And then stuff like this happens where somebody gets laid off and then you're like, Shit, I know somebody who does recruiting. I know somebody who can help you out. And then you're not really reaching out to ask for help, you're just saying like, hey, just building on the last three years of us just chatting back and forth, do you mind helping this guy out? And it's like a an automatic yes. So this is sort of like a more of a life lesson than anything like you want to build relationships before you have to actually ask for something, so that when you do need help with something like people are there to help you. But yes, like a lot of a lot of very tangible examples for my brand for my business and for just, you know, just general good things that have happened in my life because of it. So yeah, a lot of a lot of good stuff. A lot of good stuff.
Kap Chatfield 35:34
That's cool. When you're doing speaking engagements, what do you what do you typically ask to speak about?
Scott D. Clary 35:42
Usually, social media marketing, sometimes podcasting, sales and marketing alignment. I do speak about sales strategy, outbound demand generation. I subscribe to like the Mark Roberge HubSpot, you know, inbound model. So every time somebody asks me to speak about outbound, I'm like, but you also have to speak about inbound. And I'm going to teach you how those two things have to align. I'm trying to think what else. That's pretty much it. Like, it's like, a lot of people are like, sort of like skewing towards podcasting now, because I do a lot of that. But I still really do like to speak about, like how to sell, but not but like social selling. For example, I'm a big proponent of social selling. Again, building your own brand. Social selling? So social selling has multiple facets to it, you hear this word a lot. What does it actually mean? Well it can mean a couple things. So first definition would mean you're including, for example, LinkedIn, in your outbound strategy. So say you're an SDR, you're emailing, you're cold calling and then you're also hitting up your prospects on LinkedIn. So that could be one iteration of social selling. Another iteration of social selling could be you building out your own brand on LinkedIn, so that when you hit up somebody's inbox, somebody is going to your profile, they're looking at your content, you're a trusted thought leader, or subject matter expert, there's a little bit of trust built before you even speak to that person. And they're more likely to actually convert and to speak to you and trust you when you actually jump on a call with them. So that's social selling that I like to speak about. And a brand that does that really well, there's lots of independent consultants to do that well on LinkedIn, but a brand that does that really well is Gong. Everybody who works at Gong, they all evangelize the brand. They're all you know, they're all not told, but like, given the opportunity to be thought leaders. If you see a sales rep from Gong, they're going to be posting tons over LinkedIn, they're going to be speaking at events. And this is all, you know, helping them achieve their sales targets, their revenue targets, but it's also helping Gong. Obviously. So that's, that, to me is social selling, it's built it is building your own brand and then using your own brand to help you in whatever role you're at, or whatever role or whatever job you're trying to do. So I think that that's something that is also like we talked about, talking about the future of content marketing, with video, podcasting, or just podcasting. Well, the future of sales is social selling, building a brand, creating trust before people even start speaking to you in person. And that's where I think brands should also go. So I speak about that a lot as well, too.
Kap Chatfield 38:17
Dude, I hear about Gong like multiple times a day now. So I've never really looked into them.
Scott D. Clary 38:21
They're really, really good.
Kap Chatfield 38:23
I got checking them out. So thank you for that. I want to circle back into something that you talked about earlier, I can't remember how much we talked about on the pre show call. So let's just start with a clean slate. But I want to talk about
Scott D. Clary 38:35
Whatever you want to talk about to me about and I'm good.
Kap Chatfield 38:37
Well, it's about, it's regarding the set, the alignment of sales and marketing, which is huge, because I think that's why a lot of people, b2b brands are hesitant to start doing show marketing because they think it's just a long game play. They don't want to invest this much money into something that they can actually track the attribution of. And so the question I want to ask you, like, your thoughts on how attribution, especially with like show content, or podcasting content, how's it so broken? And how do b2b brands need to start thinking about measuring success with their content?
Scott D. Clary 39:09
So I think that it's broken, because first of all, brands aren't setting themselves up for success. So even if they don't have a tool to actually attribute effort and energy and money spent on a podcast to actual revenue, I still don't know if 100% of brands that have a show are potentially even setting the show up properly. So let's talk about setting up the show properly then we can speak about maybe some opportunities or tools for attribution. So I think to set up a show properly and I know that you're you're definitely going to be like listening to what I'm going to say because I know you do this for a living so I hope that I you know, I pass a sniff test on on what you do, know you do all the time, but um, I think for me if I was going to tell a brand to set up a show, well, first of all, you have to start with your ICP, your customer profile your buyer persona. So your ICP, your ideal customer profile, and basically the company you're selling to, and the buyer persona, aka the person within the company you're selling to has to drive all sales and marketing activities. So that also means driving your podcast. And what I mean by that is, after you've identified your ICP and your buyer persona, then you have to think about, okay, how can I create podcasts and content that is actually, you know, answering questions that that avatar would be having. So it's the content, the questions that I'm asking the guests, if I was person putting on a, you know, my businesses or hosting my business podcast, I'd be asking questions that are highly searched questions, or, or very often asked questions that my customers usually asked me. And I can either do that from listening to, you know, sales calls, Customer Success calls. I can use tools like Answer the Public, to look for highly searched terms that are something to do with my industry. And that's the content strategy. Those are the questions I'm asking, that's what I want to pull out of the podcast. And that's what I want to drive my podcast content strategy. I want to be answering the questions that my customers are asking me. So first you have to know who your customer is, then you have to know what questions your customers are asking, that drives your podcast content. So that's, that's the first thing you should do. The second thing you should do is you can also leverage a podcast as a sales tool. So not only go, let's go, you know, what's up, you know, what's up. So not only are you using this as a content strategy to drive new customers, you can be inviting guests that could be potential clients as well. So same exercise. You have to know who your ICP is, you have to know who your buyer persona is and you're inviting those guests onto your podcast, you're diving into their story, you're bringing their expertise, and simultaneously, you're building a hell of a lot of rapport with that person. Because all you care about is them, which is the way sales should be anyways. But for some reason, people are just programmed to do it better when it's in a podcast format, versus on a zoom call. But that's the way sales should always be like a zoom call should be focused on the person, the customer, asking them questions, caring about them. So it just so happens that the way that we think of a podcast lends us to have better sales conversations than half of the sales conversations that we actually have, because we actually care about the person who we're interviewing. So that is also a sales strategy, right?
Kap Chatfield 42:28
So true dude, it's like such a hack, bro. It's insane.
Scott D. Clary 42:31
It is such a hack. It's such a hack, man. So I think that if you focus on optimizing the content, you use the podcast as an actual sales tool. Right right away without even we're not even attribution yet. Right away, you should think about that and be like, Wow, okay, why would I not do that? Because at the very worst, it's just a sales call that turns into content. And you're also building great relationships at the same time. So if you're, if you are allocating, maybe one hour of a hosts time plus, say three hours of editing, and you build out a great content dissemination process, like to me, that's a no brainer. Four hours of time, to have incredible calls with all of your ideal prospects and build rapport with them? And then also, at the same time getting content out of that? Okay, so maybe you haven't attributed any actual revenue yet. But this is still like a no brainer. So then we can go on to, okay, now we want to attribute revenue? So then you there are tools, there are tools that can attribute revenue. So one is Casted. So casted is a b2b podcasting platform. It has a whole bunch of features, but one of the main things is to try and figure out when somebody listens to the show, how to map that person to whether or not they engage with your brand and the customer journey that they go on. And whether there's a there's a conversion event later on in the future. So Casted is one. Pod Sites does, this if you're not, casted as a platform that does it. Megaphone is a podcast hosting platform that does it. Pod sites is just a tool that can be used with any podcasting platform. So if you'd like Lipson or something else, it also has the ability to attribute a listener to revenue. So I'm trying to think what else, that's pretty much it man. That's pretty much it. You got, that's your attribution. So like there if you really want like hard attribution, first of all, if like, well, let's be let's be candid, if somebody who you have as a guest closes as a customer, that's, there's your attribution, but not really I know what you're talking about. That's not the true attribution you're looking for. But still, there's revenue there. And if you're in the b2b space, I would assume one guest one guest that closes as a customer should cover the majority of your podcasting costs. For your four hours a week.
Kap Chatfield 44:55
You're not doing something right with with what you're selling...
Scott D. Clary 44:57
I don't know what your products priced at but yes, if you're like over the $10,000, you know, you know, customer, you know, your LTV for your customer is like over $10,000 bucks like you, you're covering your costs with one sale. But then if you do want to attribute there's like tools and platforms that actually tie a listener to conversion events. And that would be the last piece in the puzzle for b2b, b2b, podcasting. Excuse me.
Kap Chatfield 45:23
Boom, that's it? Well, we talked about, I mean, you nailed it, we kind of put it in slightly different order. But we talked about there's short term, medium term and long term play with generating revenue for your business. The first one you mentioned it, is leveraging it as a sales tool. We call it we talk about engaging target accounts. But I love that you started with the ICP, thinking about your audience, turning your customer into an audience. Because when you think about them as an audience, and what kind of type of content would they want to consume, it makes you very careful about how you approach the podcast. Like it's, you know, what's so cool about the podcast strategy to me? Is it cuts out all the BS, and it makes it a really genuine experience, marketing and sales from top to bottom, it has to be because in order for it to bring value to your to your audience that matches your customer, you really need to be thinking carefully about what would be meaningful to this audience? And then, if you're going to invite target accounts onto your show, in order to leave a good taste in their mouth about their experience with that 60 minute call with you, they need to feel like your show actually has some sort of brand direction to it, so that you're not just like hopping them in a call and in the show that you have no intention to actually leverage the show in a meaning meaningful way to the external world. And so it's like, if you if you care about every level of that like, deeply and in a genuine way. It's like, like you said, it's such a hack. And then, dude, I love that what you said, at the very worst, at the very best, it could be like you begin a relationship, you end up closing a deal, 30 to 60 days, and the whole thing's paid for and, and then that just like accelerates it. Because now you're building brand you have, you're building this new relationship, it's and then you have all the thought leadership content on top of it. But at the very worst, you said, it's a podcast that turns into a podcast episode that turns into content, which is still going to be helpful for you. Yeah, and you're gonna be on the show with them.
Scott D. Clary 47:19
It's like a content strategy that has the option of paying itself off. Which doesn't exist.
Kap Chatfield 47:25
That's so awesome. Yes. Yeah. And and you get smarter you become a thought leader. Because truly, like you're, you're you're developing your thought leadership, because you're, you're asking really good questions with guests that you have on your show and...
Scott D. Clary 47:38
It's true yeah.
Kap Chatfield 47:39
Dude, I, I love it. I'm falling in love. I'm falling in love with podcasting all over again. So thanks for thanks for sharing all that dude.
Scott D. Clary 47:46
Dude, it's just such a killer strategy. Like there's so much and it can impact other business units too. Like, you can you can figure out, you know, what we're talking about, like rev ops or customer success, like how do we improve the customer journey? How do we improve the post sales experience? Like, these are all questions like, if you don't have some sort of medium, or some sort of process to be asking your customer these things. These are things that can be pulled out from that interview. Because it's all relevant. It's all relevant in the b2b world. These are things that are top of mind for business leaders. So you want to make sure that it's you don't go too broad. But I mean, there's a lot of opportunity here.
Kap Chatfield 48:30
I think if um, man, I firmly believe that let me ask you this. Do you have any any future plans for like new shows that you want to start or new content vehicles that you want to create?
Scott D. Clary 48:42
Oh, dude, I always do.
Kap Chatfield 48:45
Scott D. Clary 48:46
Yeah, I want to do like I want to do like a business, and I've already started trying to figure out how to do it well, but like a business case study show where I break down like high growth startups and like their playbook and whatnot, that's gonna be a lot of fun. Um, yeah, I thought of a couple different things, I want to do like I want to do like something I'm working on right now, and I haven't figured out how to scale myself, this is this is actually the biggest issue with it, but I wanted to do like a like a 10 minute MBA, but from like, like every day is like a 10 minute lesson from like a different business leader. So like crowdsource the content, which I'm trying to figure out an easy way to do that now. And then you like bring in like every single day like a 10 minute clip from like, it's not interview style, it's just them teaching one specific thing that they're really really good at in 10 minutes or less. And just play around with that format, see how that works. But just like have tons of user generated or crowdsource content that'd be a lot of fun too. But yeah, man. Like it's gonna be dangerous when I when I don't work that nine to five anymore man, it's gonna be dangerous. My girlfriend was like, you're gonna be making content all dam day. But I love it. I love it and like it's you just see, like you see, you see it being well received or not well received or that whatever you just like you get like this feedback on on things you're putting out there and I think that being able to put out this content and to test the market and to test audiences, like, that's the marketing of tomorrow, that is how you have to market. And I think that people who don't turn themselves into media companies and have that media feedback mechanism, I think they're, they're going to be hurting. And I think that that's why you have to be so good at taking content and putting it across all these different social media mediums, because they're not going away. You might as well learn how to communicate on them effectively. And that's why I like creating content cuz then I get that immediate feedback. And I think so.
Kap Chatfield 50:34
I so agree, man, it's a it's such a fun way. I love the social, it's like, that's, that is what social selling ends up becoming, as you said, it's like, yeah, you're creating content, which builds relationship. There's also this like, residual relationship effect, because your content doesn't have a shelf life of 24 hours, especially if you're using YouTube. YouTube's an evergreen platform. So if you're putting the content out there, you know, it could be a video that you put out a year or two ago that someone sees and then that's how they get turned on to you. So it's a it's I love it man. It's exciting a lot of it is so much fun. I'm excited to see what else you create bro, I honestly like we're coming up to the end of the show right now and I'm just like, dude, I could rap with you for hours like this.
Scott D. Clary 51:17
I know we could, we could do other stuff, we'll do another one sometime if you want man. Well, I'll think of something else to talk about, yeah.
Kap Chatfield 51:23
Yeah, we'll have you on. I'll think of some other topics that we can cover, but Scott man this is, this was a blast. We talked about it at the beginning of the the pre-show before we started recording but we want to make sure that people have an opportunity to follow you. Dude you're all over the place. So to give our audience at least like a single strong call to action, where do you want them to actually follow you? Do you want them on certain platforms? You want them to follow your show? How can they get a hold of you?
Scott D. Clary 51:50
You can go to like all the social is @ Scott D Clary or you can go to Scott D. Clary. com That's all easy.
Kap Chatfield 51:57
Yeah, dude, we'll put those in the in the show notes. We'll also put the the link for his YouTube channel. I just got to throw that out there because not a lot of b2b players are taking YouTube seriously enough. And you mentioned it is the number one search engine in the world and is the number two website in the world. It should be taken very seriously. So Scott, dude you just drop some bombs on today's episode, so grateful to have you on and we will have you again in the future. Thanks again, bro.
Scott D. Clary 52:25