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Kap Chatfield 00:20
Hey gang, welcome back to B2B Podcasting, the official show for B2B CEOs, founders, brand leaders, sales leaders and marketers to help them skip ads and be the show. I'm your host, Kap Chatfield CEO of Rveal Media. Today, our guest is Jesus McDonald. He is the founder and CEO of JRM Web Marketing and he's also the host of Mastering B2B Marketing a phenomenal smash hit podcast for anybody interested in understanding and truly mastering the world of B2B marketing. It's a real pleasure to have you on the show today Jesus, thanks for joining us.
Jesus McDonald 00:52
Same here, same here.
Kap Chatfield 00:55
Alright, let's jump right into it. I want to just kind of break down a little bit more contextually, because b2b marketing is super broad and vast, but you are really, your company's hitting a very specific area of marketing. So break down for us briefly what you guys are doing at JRM?
Jesus McDonald 01:11
Yeah, so WordPress website development company, as you mentioned, what we're doing specifically because I know you mentioned reaching out to me discussing the podcasts that we're doing and everything like that. So we're just pushing out valuable, insightful content for b2b marketing professionals. And it's a long journey, I try to just keep it as short as possible. But what we're doing was pretty much, one being a marketer turn to now CEO running my own agency, I saw a need in the market, which was, you know, WordPress development and also, the responsiveness to communication was huge. So for me, it was more about, hey, I'm a b2b marketer, I like talking about marketing, I'm passionate about marketing, I can talk about this all day long. And at the same time, I can also talk about, you know, the pain points that marketers or even CEOs face when it comes to just web development. Right? And I feel like it gets, it's undervalued a lot, just like copywriting is. I feel like it's starting to become more valuable these days, copywriting, web development. And especially if you're a company that's trying to scale fast, speed is everything when it comes to marketing. So having a solid copywriter, developer on your team, to take it to the next level is pretty much the way to go nowadays, if you want to stay ahead of the competition. So we're pushing out content through the podcast. So we start with a podcast, whether it's me sharing, you know, things that I'm learning in b2b marketing, or, you know, from my experience, or experimenting, to bringing on guests that pretty much are experts in their industry onto the show, just to provide value to our audience. And then from there, you know, we throw it on video, which I started on video first, believe it or not, a lot of people start with audio, but I started with video, because I saw the importance of that, and how effective it is, compared to images, text only type content. And then from there, I started the audio, and started providing more my audience of a better experience. A lot of podcasts start with just audio and just stay at audio. But I was like, "You know what? I've gotten feedback from listeners that they want to also see the video". So a lot of people wanted to see the video. So I was like, alright, and it was around 50/50 It wasn't like 100% wanted to see the video only it was like 50/50. So for me, I was like, I'll just create both, like we're already recording just like we're doing right now. And, you know, I'll throw up the the full, you know, video and chop it up into short clips. And, you know, upload the full audio to our podcast hosting provider, which we use Anchor, by the way, for those that are looking to start a podcast free. Your monitor, you can even monetize for free and this is not even a sponsored content, this is just reality. Sure. So yeah, cuz I've done a lot of research and a lot of them you have to pay for a tiered plan and all this stuff to monetize and all this other stuff. If you're really into monetizing. If you're not then don't worry about it kind of stuff. We don't monetize. We don't do any type of advertisement, everything has been 100% just inbound. Super blessed and grateful for that. And I can get right into the specific practicals that we do. If you want to dive right into that.
Kap Chatfield 04:35
Dude, let's nerd out. Let's just get technical. Let's make this a technical practical episode for those who are just ready to start a show. I want to just like, let's kind of reel it in just a little bit because you made a comment there that's super important for people to understand. You have 100% inbound for your company right now. And so I'm sure that your show that you're doing is is really kind of attributing to that, it's accelerating that amount of demand and and people coming in and connecting with you on LinkedIn and stuff like that. So was that part of your strategy from the jump was to like start this show as an inbound machine? Or did you just do it really kind of because it was fun and it was something exciting to do?
Jesus McDonald 05:14
You know, I never really wanted to start a podcast show. To me, I was like, I didn't want to put my face of the company, you know, out there in public, I didn't want to post consistently on LinkedIn. I've noticed a few b2b marketers posting consistently on LinkedIn, and everyone having their own approach or strategy. Some mix it up. Some just follow others, like for example, content to be more specific, some will say, "hey, just post everything about you know, WordPress websites. And don't go out of your lane". Some say, "you know, throw in your kid every now and then and make it personal". Some people get to know your personality or character, things like that. So everyone has their own thing on how they took that approach. I started experimenting with it. Mainly, why I started experimenting, because I was inspired by a few LinkedIn influencers that I've had on my show, and we started talking and then after the show, as you know, you get to spend more time with them kind of just talking about marketing, LinkedIn strategy, content strategy, and a lot of them that I saw just, if I go back at a glance, consistency is the number one thing that has helped them compound the results that they have right now. So I'm like, "You know what, I'm going to go experiment with it". So I did, I did it for 30 days, 60, 90 days. And it was it wasn't video at the time on LinkedIn. For me first is where's your ideal client hanging out? Right? And then figuring, okay, that's a social media, you know, platform that they're hanging out on, let's say it's LinkedIn, let me start providing valuable content that resonates with them. For example, Wordpress development is my niche, how can I provide value to them around that? But also, you know, help them to where it's almost like giving it away. A lot of people on LinkedIn don't really share of, they'll say, I'm throwing like a total random analogy. "If you invest, you can be a millionaire". It's like, well, yeah, duh, but how do you how did you do it? Nobody talks about how you did it, because they're so fearful that someone's gonna steal it and stuff like that, but I try to provide as much as possible, keep it 100. And I just throw it out there. Here it is, steal it if you want to. We have a system and a lot of people give up, a lot of people quit. So it takes a lot of hard work. It's definitely a mindset thing. And I just show up pretty much everyday posting on LinkedIn. And why that has provided value was a lot of it was inspired by other LinkedIn influencers that were doing it and but then I started seeing the results. You know, we started with company pages, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter. But then what I started seeing was to profile pages, you know, Jesus MacDonald's LinkedIn profile page, right? That yields better results than the company page, I think you should do both to be honest. Because you don't know, you know, what angle and of the business that users come to, or leads come to find your content? So I started with that. Sorry, kind of long winded answer. And then from there, I started with the short clips, the videos. You know, I've seen Chris Walker, I've seen Sam Moss, I've seen a lot of other LinkedIn influencers doing videos. And we've seen a lot of results from that. You know, they come to our website, they fill out our short form. We asked them "How'd you hear about us?" They say, "Saw your LinkedIn content", saw Karen's content on LinkedIn. So that's the inbound and that's why we kind of really preach about it, make sure your website is up to date, is has a modern design, look and feel all that stuff. Your copy is up to date. You're not using jargon, lingo, things like that. You're speaking to them 100% Because a lot of websites really speak to "here's how awesome we are". We don't really care about your credentials. Just that's cool. Pat on the back, but how are you going to help me solve my issues? So that's kind of long story short of how I came around, seeing the inbound and making that our strategy and just really going gung ho with it.
Kap Chatfield 09:30
Well, you gave us a lot of material to unpack for sure. I got a lot of angles from that I want to cover. The first one I want to ask is just like a real hot take fire from the hip. You said that company pages and personal pages are both really important. How would you leverage each of them? Like tactically? What would you put on one versus the other?
Jesus McDonald 09:50
So me personally, I I experiment a lot with the company pages. Now I mean, that's what I was doing before. Now it's more, "hey, what content really worked well on Jesus McDonald's profile? And then let's go ahead and repurpose that on the company page." That's the way we're doing it right now. Eventually, it's going to be the company page kind of runs on its own, which is the vision, the goal, to where, hey, something happens, Jesus retires, gets hit by a car, hope to God not, anything happens, you know, they locked my account for some crazy reason, I don't know what the brand page is still going, the company pages still going kind of thing. So and the other thing too of why is you just don't know what these social media platforms how they prioritize content, right? So they could flip a switch, and they start prioritizing the company pages more than the profile pages. It might be that, again, for me, it's more like casting a net, I'm trying to get as much fish in as possible. And a lot of people do follow company pages, I'm also seeing a trend that a lot of company pages are, you're seeing more resources being brought on for company pages, and you can see it in the quality of content. And like, a lot of people have a lot of managers on the on the company pages too. So to me, it's another angle, but also giving that brand a voice, if that makes sense.
Kap Chatfield 11:26
Yep. I love I'm kind of in the same place right now, where you'd think that like the company page would probably be the most important because that's where people are ultimately, right, they would think that's where they're going to do business. But the personal page, that I'm seeing is like, it's just this like friendly reminder that people do business with people, right? So you as a personal brand, that actually lends a lot of credibility to your company. Because people connect with faces, they connect with names, and so right, allowing the personal page to be the place where you're like, it's it's your true r&d space, where you're testing out new things, and then you can kind of build, you can kind of leverage that for the corporate strategy. I think, I think that makes a lot of sense.
Jesus McDonald 12:08
Absolutely. Yeah, the huge humanizing the whole process by really posting on your profile, a lot of CEOs, founders don't really do that. So it carries a lot of weight, when you do see a founder or CEO is really posting, you know, industry leader type content. And they have the courage to do it. A lot of times why I believe they don't do it is because of fear and insecurities. How is this gonna make me look? How is this gonna make the company look, right? And the ones that are really seizing the moment are the ones that are pushing through those fears and being courageous about it. And honestly, it kind of goes away after a while, because it just becomes the norm of just posting all the time.
Kap Chatfield 12:49
Right? Just showing up and putting your face out there. You made that comment about consistency, too, is like I could have, you could have mediocre content, quite honestly. And as long as you're consistent and you're showing up, there is going to be that that compound effect over time. One thing, right, you said too is, actually do you have it, you have anything you want to add to that I want to give you space, if you want to,
Jesus McDonald 13:11
In regards to what you just said?
Kap Chatfield 13:12
Yeah, expounding on the count the compound effect of consistent content.
Jesus McDonald 13:16
I think the consistency is good. I do think you need to have a content strategy in place. I think, like for example, Tick Toc. It's their organic reach is so great and stuff like that. You can post the crappiest content on there and still get amazing eyeballs, views, things like that. But if you want people to know you in your industry and what you actually provide, I think you need to kind of double down on a content strategy. So you can actually provide really good quality content that resonates with the market. I think that's how you get out. You get to be known as the go to person for that, right? So for us, it's like, the more I post about websites, "hey, that's the WordPress website guy". His content, he's always in my feed, like top of mind strategy, which I get that a lot. A lot of I've had a guest on my show, and you know, he was asking as a b2b company, and he was saying, "Hey, I've been following your content for 12 months and we have you down for a website redesign on WordPress in January, but we haven't contacted you yet but you live in my feed". And I'm like, can I just use you right now as an example? Like this is top of mind strategy. You're not even my customer, right? And he was like, "Well, not yet". I'm like no, I'm just saying like this is like a live example of why podcasting is so important. Why showing up is so important consistently because it might take you another 12 months, but I'm not selling you. I'm just providing valuable content. That's it. So top of my love it.
Kap Chatfield 14:57
I love that. I love that comment "you're showing up in my feed." It's like you're there, you're there, but you're not. But here's what's cool about about your content style, because you're focusing on creating meaningful content, you could be in people's feed as an ad, quote, unquote, is what we say. You can either be an ad or a show. Ads, interrupt the content you want to consume, shows are the content you want to consume. And because you have the mindset of, I'm not coming out overtly salesy. I'm not coming out, pointing the thumbs back at me, me, me, me, me. You're providing value, you're a show, you're truly a show that's like your profiles a show. And when people see your content, they allow you to stick around because it's right, it's valuable content, they want to see the next episode.
Jesus McDonald 15:41
Absolutely. I like that more of the show. It's the experience that they really, that really matters. And that really resonates with them all the time. They get excited, too, "what's the next thing? What is Jesus gonna say? What is other helpful things?" I talked to another person too, that I've had on the show, this is interesting, because I bring on, you know, b2b marketing professionals on the show, and they've told me, "Hey, I've been watching your podcast show on YouTube". I'm like, Oh, that's awesome, right? And, you know, if for those that are interested, is JRM Marketing, my company page, YouTube channel, if you guys are interested in watching that just a short snippet. And he said, I opened up a new tab, and I start implementing everything you say. I'm like," wow". And I'm like, "hey, that's so encouraging and rewarding to me specifically, because I want to hear stuff like that". That builds my faith. And that's what it's all about, like, we're all marketers helping each other out. And I just love it. Because he's been telling me the results, all that stuff about it and everything. And he's like, I feel like I know you. I'm like, "this is our first meeting. This is awesome".
Kap Chatfield 16:58
That's it. Okay, you just made a really interesting comment there about I feel like "I just I feel like I know you" because the the consistency of showing up it's like, you know, it's it's relationship at scale. Like you're putting you're building relationship with people in your sleep. Like, literally, you're not even there live and people are receiving content from you and then they show up on a call. And they're like, Dude, it's like, probably the first time that you got a Chris Walker on your show. You're like, Dude, I feel like I know you and Chris Walker's like, who are you? Like this? It's like the asymmetric relationship building element to it.
Jesus McDonald 17:34
Yeah, I think, so, what I tell people that are looking to start a podcast or are on the fence of starting a podcast, I tell them that it's an aspect of business networking.
Kap Chatfield 17:47
Jesus McDonald 17:48
If you don't value that or understand that, then you're going to quit. So yes, it builds the brand. Yes, it brings inbound leads, you also have to know how to chop it up and, and, and invest time in it and value that. If you're looking at podcast analytics, just forget about starting a podcast because you don't get it. So that's basically what I tell them. And people try to ask me, "What's your podcast analytics?" I'm like, I don't even remember the last time I looked at them. I'm like, put it that way. Because it means nothing. I don't care how many people subscribe. I don't care how many people download it. Like, so what? That's like saying, "I get excited because I got 100 likes on my LinkedIn posts". So what? Awesome people resonated with it.
Kap Chatfield 18:38
I'm not you'll see that as a quote for sure. If you're focusing and looking at podcasting analytics, you're missing it. That's, there's it's so much bigger than that. You know, I want to talk about like, you're you're very laser focused with who you're trying to reach, it comes out in even the language of like, you know, I was just even looking at one of your recent LinkedIn posts, you said, "you know when a CEO gets marketing because they do the following" you listed out like a really good list there. You mentioned even even your show is specifically to like help CEOs understand b2b marketing. You know who your audience is. How does that how does that affect your content creation process when you're thinking about the audience first?
Jesus McDonald 19:21
Yeah, so my audience is more b2b marketing professionals more than the CEO. I work with CEOs directly. I spend zero time trying to prove you know, persuade or convince a CEO about getting marketing or valuing marketing. I spend little to no time on that, like zero time on it. The reason why I feel so much about that is because as I mentioned, you know, b2b marketer turned to CEO running my development company now, I experienced all those pains. I experienced the frustrations, all that of being a digital marketer and then having a CEO who didn't get marketing or valued my work, valued marketing, gave a budget to marketing as much afraid of trying new things, all that stuff. And it hurt my career, it really did. Well, there was no ladder to climb or anything like that. And yeah, I can sit here and talk about all the negative stuff, right? But I also was glad that I experienced that so I actually knew, like, what to look for. How I could actually help people to not get stuck, right? Marketers today that are stuck in their career. And the fear of, I don't know, I'm gonna have the confidence to apply for this. I mean, if you need confidence, and, you know, work on that, but honestly, it does not take a week or a month to build confidence. I mean, it really takes a day, less than a day. Like to actually prioritize it, do whatever you need to, but work on that stuff. And so I'm trying to provide content that helpful to the marketer and their career, so mainly because I've experienced that stuff myself. But then also, like my audience is, as I mentioned, b2b marketing professionals, it's also just not on a career growth path, but it's also on a, this is going to help you to do better marketing. And I'm bringing in es experts in the industry, to take your marketing to the next level. And at the same time, what's cool about the whole journey is I'm also implementing this for my own company, when I'm learning from experts and everything like that. So I'm just another person in the crowd just sitting down or in the audience sitting down. I'm taking notes and everything, while I'm actually doing the podcast interviews with my guests. So it's all of that. So again, it's the experience, but then also, sharing that. And why I posted today is because I I feel like I post a lot of like, you know, "here's something that CEOs don't get" don't understand, don't value, and everything like that, right? Yeah, it almost comes off, like I'm bitter, but I'm not butter. I'm like poor CEO, I'm also CEO too now. So but there are a lot of people that do get marketing as a CEO, do value it, pay really good salaries, promotions, pull the marketer into sales meetings, want their their valuable, you know, opinion, input, advice, feedback, all that stuff. Trusts them with any marketing decision they do. There are CEOs like that, I have experienced that. So today, I was like, "Here's what a CEO that does get marketing looks like", right? So I kind of spun it the other way around. Everyone gives a bad rap to CEOs.
Kap Chatfield 22:43
But no, that's us, that's important. Because you don't want to, you know, if you truly want your audience, the people that you're really called to serve, if you want them to be more effective in that role, where they're serving underneath the CEO, they can't resent the CEO. And so you're, what you're doing is, you're helping b2b marketers better understand, "hey, if you understand what keeps your CEO up at night, and you understand what they care about, it's gonna change the way that you present your work to them, it's gonna change the way that you reverse engineer a strategy that's gonna make you more valuable to the organization". So I think that's such a brilliant way of approaching it. It's like,
Jesus McDonald 23:26
And I posted, in my LinkedIn post today was about "here are the things to look at for CEO for CEO who does value marketing." Because those are things that you really look for. Because those are the type of CEOs you actually do want to work for. Right? I mean, yes, what gets the CEO up late at night thinking about work and everything like that, I mean, I feel like, sure, that's good to know, and everything like that. But at the same time, no one's gonna care more about the business than the CEO. Sure. That's a totally different level, and department. But I do think that, hey, if they value marketing, they're going to value humans, they're going to value you. And I think that's what really matters is people valuing people. That's huge. So, I want marketers to be successful, and not be in a career where executive team doesn't value marketing, and they're stuck. I'm over here, like, let me be your motivator to go find a new job. I'm over here advocating go get a new job. They don't, the executive team or CEO doesn't get marketing? Go get a new job. I mean, if you're a good marketer, you could you'll get a really good job. Right? With the higher pay, work from home, like a lot of companies hiring.
Kap Chatfield 24:43
A lot of companies hiring for sure. I'm really impressed by that. I think it's so important that you've clarified with laser focus precision who that audience is and you're on message. You're just super consistent with your messaging. How do you how do you come up with the topics for your, for any piece of LinkedIn content you put out or from the featured guests that you decide to invite on your show? Clearly, like, it takes some work and some preparation to create some cohesion around all those things. But you got you got the streamline factor to it, how do you how do you pre produce that?
Jesus McDonald 25:18
I think the strength that I lean on the most and, and I've gotten out of my lane a few times, but even a lot of my industry partners have said kind of, hey, lean on your strengths is I'm a marketer first. So a lot of it comes from the things I'm passionate about. It's all about relationship, when it comes to business, doesn't matter if you're marketing, sales or the CEO, it's all about relationships. So if you learn how to be a good relationship builder, that's huge. Podcasting, aspect of business networking, relationships, right? So to me, I'm thinking, my strengths is leadership, emotional awareness. It's also being a marketer first. So I lean on those strengths. And that's where my content flows. And it's really, it's really, I'm not trying to like, puff myself up here, with pride and all this stuff and get my head bigger than it is. So it comes easy, and it's natural to me, because as a marketer, my mind does not shut off. So I have a lot of creative thoughts, ideas, things I want to experiment with. We're experimenting with tick tock and YouTube shorts right now. So there's like a lot of things that I'm really excited about doing cool. So we're also revamping, you know, part of our website, too. So there's a lot of things that I'm doing, there's a lot of balls in the air and things like that, all I do is like, get my notes app, write down one or two sentences. I elaborate on it later. So because I already know what I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna do it later. So my notes app is full of just content ideas. Yeah. And things that I want to experiment with and sometimes provide people with that type of content. This is my exact podcast process. Unbelievable. And it changes all the time. Right? Tick tock was never part of it. Now it is.
Kap Chatfield 27:18
I one thing that I've noticed about myself is especially because you'd mentioned like the marketers mind just continues to race. And I think that's also true for like, the CEO, like you said, no one cares about the company more than the CEO. Like, they're always thinking about that thing. And one thing that I've discovered about myself is, if I don't have an outlet to process what I'm thinking, right, I'll go crazy. And I won't ever actually get good at communicating that vision. And so for me, the the podcast becomes an opportunity for me to just get reps in and just get better at communicating more concisely. I would love for you to speak into that as far as like, how you're leveraging your show, even from a selfish standpoint of like, hey, how do I even how can I refine these thoughts out? How can I communicate this more more clearly, more concisely?
Jesus McDonald 28:08
Yeah, I think for me, it I mean, for thinking about it, from a selfish point of view, is getting just great minded, like-minded marketers on the show, that are doing modern b2b marketing. And really understanding why do they do what they do? Get into the root, and then also understanding their strategy. Why this strategy? Why not this? And why that? Did you consider this? "Yeah, we trashed it though, because of x y&z" So it's really getting to those and then it's also saying, "Hey, how can we do modern modern b2b marketing as well as a company?" So it's thinking about those things. And then also thinking about how does that play into our content strategy, we need to pivot, as well. So we're always changing, or pivoting all the time, trying new things. And honestly, a lot of the stuff that I've implemented from, you know, b2b marketing experts has been super valuable to the business where we're getting results from that. So hence, inbound marketing is working for us.
Kap Chatfield 29:25
Yeah, no kidding. I'm curious. I'd love to just kind of get tactical into your brain. Actually, it's funny because literally on the on the day of this recording, I was just listening to a State Of Demand Gen episode. I'm sure you already know who that is, or what show that is because you know, Chris Walker, but the podcast episode was why we're prioritizing tick tock parentheses, but maybe you shouldn't. It's probably not the strategy for everybody. But I think b2b, it's super interesting. The b2b marketers that I'm talking to, they're all kind of testing the waters with it. I'm curious to hear straight from you why, why are you guys finding that a valuable place to experiment right now?
Jesus McDonald 30:05
I think a lot of b2b marketers are already there and are experiencing. So again, it's going where your audience is going or are about to go. So to me, it's thinking about it more we're a few steps ahead, or we're just right in line. Right? We're there already. So I think we're not putting all our resources in there. We are experimenting, I think where people make mistakes is they jump LinkedIn and they go 100% into Tik Tok, resources and everything, but their ideal client is still hanging out on LinkedIn. Right? So I think it's still doing it on the side. But I do believe it's gonna take off eventually. So the way we kind of did it, let's get more tactical, because I love this stuff is, what we do is we do the full podcast video, we chop it up into short clips that we upload on Youtube. So YouTube is getting the full video, two or three short clips. And then what we do is we create a YouTube shorts. So the YouTube shorts becomes the focus. And it's a nine by six, or the aspect ratio is 916. For the video, and we create that aspect ratio 916 for YouTube shorts, we keep it under 60 seconds, because I think that's the limit for YouTube shorts right now. And then for Tik Tok, it used to be 60 seconds. Now they extended it to three minutes, three minutes. Yeah, but honestly, you want to keep it to 60 seconds or, or lower than that, because people's attention span is just so quick people, it's like Instagram, you just scroll, scroll, scroll, right? You got to really hook them or get their attention right at the beginning. First three seconds. So I said you know what, let's just do aspect ratio, 916, 60 seconds for YouTube shorts, we'll use that same video for Tik Tok. We'll use that same video also, for Instagram reels, which is pretty much the same thing as Tik tock. And so we just started doing that, like last month. And yes, the organic reach is generous, is good and everything like that. But I'm not planning to see any real results until, I don't know, months down the road. So I think it's because we're going to continue to change the template of our videos, you know, the messaging to people like tips and tricks to people like, you know, just pure advice from the guest from Jesus. Like we're trying to pretty much figure it all out. But at the same time, I think it's really exciting just to be experimenting with all of that. So that's kind of how we do it with the chopping it up of the video into short clips. And then out of those three short clips, we also use one of them to create a square video for LinkedIn. And that's the one that people see on LinkedIn all the time. So we use that, then we provide the links to listen on Spotify, on Apple podcast, Google podcasts, on YouTube, because some people want to view it instead of listening to it.
Kap Chatfield 33:19
Are you doing that all yourself? Cuz I can imagine somebody listening to that, but they're like, "Dude, I It sounds resourceful. But gosh, that still sounds like a lot of work and time."
Jesus McDonald 33:29
Yeah. So if you're on a very tight budget, you can definitely do it yourself. I tend to your question, I don't do it. I used to do it myself. I rolled up my sleeves, and I did it. And I got to see I got to write down, this is where I want to chop it up here. That's a good first. That's a good quote. That's a good first clip that I want to do. I did all of that stuff. And now what I do is, since I'm in the interview, I want to be the person that gives it to my video editor exactly what parts I want cut out. I don't want him he wasn't in the interview. And I want to save him time. That way he can, you know, produce everything in a timely manner. So I give them the quotes. I give our video editor the quotes that I want to be displayed on the video, the headline, the captions, he does the captions, we use rev.com for the captions. And we manually you know input those captions on the video. I used to do the what is it SRT files, the caption files? Yeah, I used to just upload that on LinkedIn and YouTube and everything like that because I was experimenting to see if it would actually bring some value to SEO. So just for SEO purposes, but then sure. We kind of just switched over to just manually inputting it there. We didn't see any significant difference, if anything, it was more readable because the font size we're able to control and everything compared to what LinkedIn provided.
Kap Chatfield 35:06
I love it. We're experimenting with Tik Toc currently, I haven't really messed around with YouTube shorts at all. What do you think? I mean, I'm curious to hear your thoughts, you made the comment that content is really about, you know, and marketing is really about being human. And I feel like the more that b2b brands start embracing these digital platforms, not with like, how do we do this, like as a corporation, but how do we do this as a person? Like, I'd love to hear your, like, thoughts on how companies can be more can be less like, like, stock photo-y and more more human in, and true and contextual in these platforms? What's it gonna take for them to actually execute that?
Jesus McDonald 35:49
I think talking to customers, talking more to your customers.
Kap Chatfield 35:53
If I had a penny for any every time a guest said that on our show, I'd be a rich man.
Jesus McDonald 35:58
It's serious. I'm serious, like I talk to my customers on a monthly basis.
Kap Chatfield 36:02
Jesus McDonald 36:03
Like, I think if you're not setting up time, it depends on where you are in the company, and also your role in the company and how big the company is. But heck, if you have sales reps at the company, they should have a good enough relationship to set up a meeting with you if you're the marketer. And they don't even have to be in the meeting. If they don't have a good relationship, that's something to work on, that they need to work on. Easier said than done. But there's really good salespeople on the team that can set up those meetings for you. And all you need is like 30 minutes of the customers time to ask the questions that you need to ask, why do they do this? Why do they do that? Why them? Why not someone else? Like you can ask a ton of questions. I mean, yeah, I write them down, I prepare for those meetings. When I have I have, have monthly, I have quarterly meetings with some of my clients too. And my whole thing is just being a listener, asking them why. Why do they do that? Why do they want that? But then also providing them solutions. And I want to know their industry trends. I want them to know ours, too. But my whole thing is coming in more of a consultant. But asking them just a ton of questions. And yeah, I mean, it's all about relationships, right? We talked about that. We talked about how our careers going, families, everything like that, the holidays, so it's more meaningful and impactful 100%. And I'm not saying hey, you know, you're going to be their best friend, or their therapists. If you're the marketer. I'm just saying, like, you get touches, and you build relationships, and you don't know where those relationships could go. They might even offer you a job.
Kap Chatfield 37:55
Jesus McDonald 37:55
Kap Chatfield 37:56
They could. Or refer you, you know? At least like,
Jesus McDonald 37:59
Or refer you, yeah.
Kap Chatfield 38:00
Dude, referrals are so big. And,
Jesus McDonald 38:02
You might get the referral and the salesperson didn't. Like stuff like that happens all the time. Yeah, marketers, they get a ton of business, more than the salesperson. So to me, that's kind of I don't know if I answered your question, but that's kind of more.
Kap Chatfield 38:18
I think the simplest thing, it's it. I think for some people, they're kind of they probably be like, what? It's really that easy, but it sounds so hard at the same time. It's not a scalable thing, right? It's like, yeah, sit down and have those conversations it's it happens one by one.
Jesus McDonald 38:32
Yeah. And I think a lot of times, again, fear. I feel like a psychologist or therapist on LinkedIn, because I bring up fear all the time. And I feel like fear is the most dominating negative emotion that stops us from doing great things. And the CEO would be no, no, don't reach out to the customer, don't rock the boat. Fear. Fear of losing the revenue, the client, all that stuff. One, yeah, you're not building a relationship, you feel guilty, or something else is going on, but you're just too fearful. So you want to make sure that you're aware of the fears. A lot of people don't value emotions. So you want to talk about humanizing it. Let's talk about emotions, value, my emotions, I value your emotions, like that's kind of just a normal human conversation, right? Talking about fears. So it's so easy to just oh no, you need to feel that way. Kind of thing. Right? And I'm going a little in depth here. But I do think it's very important when we talk about humanizing things. You want to share those fears, you want to share, like, even in content, you want to resonate with people, everyone is fearful. So to act like you have no fear, it's kind of concerning. Concerning and a little awkward too, if you really think about it. So in a relationship, you want to just treat it like that, like a relationship. So to me the way I think about it is talking to the customer is the number one thing and the thing that stops you from talking to customer, it doesn't matter if you're the CEO, the marketer, the salesperson is fear. So if you learn to embrace that, and deal with that, conquer that fear and be courageous and push through the fears. Like, a lot of times, I mean, let's just be real, like, I'll be vulnerable right now. Like, there's times where I'm like, man, you know, we didn't, I don't know, if I'm going to talk to this customer. Like, you know, this might be the last meeting with them, kind of thing. I show up, they're like, so fired up, appreciated all the ways that we've gone above and beyond. All ready to write a customer review. All this stuff I made up in my mind. I was like, I made all this stuff in my mind, lies and I believed them. So I don't want to keep going down this, because I know it can go on a rant, but it's so true. And all your customers want to do is talk to someone, especially during these days, they just need a friend. But they just need that connection. All Humans need connection. So to me, it's like squash those fears, take the action. That's my thing. And that's what's helped us to grow our company. That's what helped us to grow pretty much relationships, personally. Man sharing those things, like I just shared right now on video.
Kap Chatfield 41:24
That's a that's a mic drop, bro, you went so meta, but that's so true. I mean, at the core of it, like marketing and content creation and all of that, that communication. It's all about relationship. It's all about understanding people. That's what makes marketing. Good marketing is effective when you understand people and you care for people 100% That's super, super impactful, man. And, man, I we're coming up to the end of our episode now and I just I'm super grateful that you that you would go down that route, we might have to have you on a future episode to get a little bit less technical and to get more ethereal because that is that mindset of it's like a mindset and a heart set of how do you actually approach people? How do you how do you buklldoze past fear? And how do you how do you be a listener and care for people through your work. Man, Jesus it's been such a blast having you on the show today. I want to give you a shout out too in the show notes, in the description of this episode. Guys, I really recommend following Jesus on LinkedIn. We'll put the link for his his bio or his profile there, especially if you're a b2b marketer and you want to grow in your career. Make sure to check that out. We'll also put the link for his show Mastering B2B Marketing and we'll also put the link for his business JRM Web Marketing. If you need a WordPress solution, they're the people to go to. Jesus, thanks so much again for jumping on the show man it was a blast.
Jesus McDonald 42:48
Absolutely Kap, and then thank you for inviting me and also for your time too. This was great. I'm ready to do a part two. This was awesome.
Kap Chatfield 42:55
Let's do it. Alright man.